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Poorly Telegraphed High Damage Abilities


#1

When playing ARPGs we’ve all had the experience of something that’s either hard to see - or, worse, a projectile created by an offscreen enemy - and your character consequently dying abruptly to damage you could not reasonably anticipate and plan around.

The purpose of this thread is to help us get concentrated feedback regarding the source of this frustration, so that we can review the damage and range of particular abilities.

In order for this to work, it is vital that posts in this thread are informative and kept on-topic. While all feedback has merit, I may move some posts to other threads if I believe that doing so would help maintain a focused and informative conversation in this one.

Please try to include the following information;

  • The name of the enemy
  • A description of the ability
  • Your current location
  • Anything else you consider pertinent

Thank you in advance! We genuinely appreciate your help in making Last Epoch the best it can be. I can’t promise a prompt response to every post, but we will be periodically reviewing posts in this thread and making adjustments where needed.


Feedback and suggestion to the developers
pinned #2

#3

Nice, I look forward to posting lots of clips in this thread :slight_smile: Might be worth posting this in Social Media.

To start off with I suppose I’ll bring up Soul Spear (mostly skeletons, mostly imperial era/arena).

It has a general propensity to be initiated from off screen, the animation is pretty subtle (for me) and is super quality damage.

I feel the damage is fine, but the animation could be more obvious and range decreased.


#4

Please see clips below.


  • Elite Voidworm Void Pool, 4.7k tick @ 500
  • Places a conspicuous void AOE degen on the floor
  • Location: Bottom of the desert arena hill
  • Personal thoughts: Pool clips through the floor, telegraphed slightly poorly, I tend to teleport down when I noticed my health dropping rapidly even if I could not diagnose where the damage was coming from. Ultimately still survivable if I was able to walk out.


  • Skull -of blades modifier hitting for 2.6k @ 700
  • Slaps you really hard
  • Location: Bottom of hills on snow arena
  • Personal thoughts: I personally think the damage is fair for the relative scaling, I have no issue with enemy melee auto-attack damage one shotting. The “issue” is that I would have survived if they were two unmodded skullens and I could see some degree of visual cue on the -of blades modifier

With that out of the way, the rest below is discussion and opinions. Allow me to disagree with Geo on the soul spear skill above, I personally have not been been afraid of soul spear after familiarizing myself of the green swirling FX associated with the skill, my first death to it was my last. The tell to me personally seems obvious (it looks to be the same as a necro green swirling effect which can be weird at times though). I do agree the damage is appropriate and could even be buffed. If I could offer an alternate suggestion - instead of making soul spear somehow easier to see maybe differentiate the elite halberdier so the players are more prepared to anticipate it coming as they get lost in the spear skeleton packs sometimes.

Personally, of all my deaths the only “unfair” deaths I could tell would be massive volleys of fireballs all going off at once from prophets, a single skullen alive in a pack of enemies, and void degen pools. The cynicism I have with discussions like this is the removal of void mauls from arena made it relatively less interesting. You need to die to something in arena, I would have been fine with differentiating the voidmaul sunder from world sunder and not let it track slightly as well as give it a constant visual instead of disappearing between AoEs. Arena needs those “oh shit it’s them” mobs and void mauls, voidfused armors, fireballers, bears, void thralls all appropriately fit in that context. Probably unpopular opinion: If you make everything too easily reactable or too obviously telegraphed then you remove a major element of learning through experience that I think is important in progression for learning an ARPG.

There’s a mix of feedback mostly because I really enjoy discourse in any form on games I like so you’re free to move my post to where you believe appropriate! Regardless, thank you for all the hard work and for taking the time to read this.


#5

Ohh i’ve got a lot to add:

  1. Death Screech by Aviline Chimera or any Chimera
  2. Glacier/Avalanche/Meteor from Highland Bear (not sure which of these are still there)
  3. Abyssal Sundering by Void Maul (multiple deaths)
  4. Fire Circle by Smoldering Lithrac
  5. Void Explosion from Voidform
  6. Ice Barrage by Ice TOuched Archivist
  7. Void Explosion by Voidfused Armour
  8. Melee Attack by Ahuizotl
  9. Fireball by Void Touched Scholar
  10. Lightning Blast by Hiveless Phrax
  11. Death Bolt from Oculus Mortis (i believe these can AOE machinegun if cast in a group of monsters)
  12. Soul Spear by Imperial Hoplite
  13. Void Explosion by Voidfused Earth (very nasty, always stuns, overlapping AOE stacking)
  14. Fireball by Osprix Warrior

UNAVOIDABLE DAMAGE and 100% death to non-leech character

  1. Void Arrows by Void Prophets. Died 3 times
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-31pbcs0ipw
  2. Oculus Mortis and the big “cow” guys are super annoying for such builds since you can’t literally do anything against homing missiles.

#6

My issue with the chimaeras is not their damage or animation, but that the chimaeras themselves do not look menacing or dangerous. I also can’t see a difference between their peck attack and screech attack animations.

I don’t know if a very low graphics thing or just my eyesight, but I see very few vfx from mobs, all I generally see is their physical animation, which is pretty slight in the case of the hoplite.

I’m agreed on void mauls being important. They’re one of the few mobs that have decent “Chase”.[quote=“Angry_Roleplayer, post:5, topic:15075”]
UNAVOIDABLE DAMAGE and 100% death to non-leech character

  1. Void Arrows by Void Prophets. Died 3 times
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-31pbcs0ipw
  2. Oculus Mortis and the big “cow” guys are super annoying for such builds since you can’t literally do anything against homing missiles.
    [/quote]

These can be avoided by running towards the mobs. They’re also important as sustained damage sources. Without threatening sustained damage we will only die to spike damage, which I find far more frustrating.


#7

fwiw - death screech is when they curl with their head down, peck is when they curl with their head up

I will say the animation is slightly lacking there but there is a concrete difference there even if it’s (imo a little too) subtle, hope it helps!


#8

With my low level experience I can’t say that I have any problems with recognizing damage and its source. But there IS a problem with an ability to REACT on it. This became especially noticeable when I started to play with pure range damage dealer. Yeah, glass cannon, but still.

On my opinion main problems are …

  • enemies often have their attack range equal to screen size or even exceed it!
  • enemies attack from their maximum range, which means (with previous statement) that they ABLE to attack before I even detect them!
  • and yes: unavoidable damage. There’s a lot of it. A LOT.

Just watch my example: Sentinel, pure hammer thrower. No pets to cover, no leech to recover. Maximized range. Yet still I’m unable to use this advantage. Most projectiles are homing. When I’m detected they fly just from everywhere. And look at Void Pillars - 50% chance to see their void blobs flying from outside the screen.

I think we need to limit our range and enemies’ range to something less than a screen. At least.


#9

So the biggest enemy issues I notice. Soul cages, and immortal eyes. immortal eyes are the worst though, they launch 100 necrotic homing bombs at you from miles away, this has been a very frustrating problem on a lot of builds I play with, please Nerf those fuckers