Anyone else deal with this RNG?

General
116

I don’t think it either. But that was not my point. My point is that people should understand a mechanic first before stating something is broken. If I make false assumptions of how a system works, I can’t fix it. Maybe I can band aid some symptoms, but not the root cause of a problem.

This!

LE is designed as a ARPG with an online economy. This is one of the design pillars and is clearly shown on every forecast and preview of how the game would look when it is released (Kickstarter, website, dev blogs about bazar,…)

The next thing is that crafting also is a design pillar for itemisation. The whole system is based on that shard thing where you can improve gear and shatter items.

People can choose to play solo, not trade, skip the crafting… But this would be like never using a two handed weapon on a melee warpath build. You can do so but then all the 2h nodes are useless. So you could say “make an optional warpath tree for people who want to play 1h, with different nodes”.

You can’t balance a game around Multiplayer, SSF, Hardcore (gamemode), Hardcore (playtime) casual at the same time and make everybody happy.

For me it is obvious that if a game has multiplayer and trading, the economy hast to take this into account. If people play SSF they have a lot harder time to find items. That’s just how it works.

In the current state if the game, where you can end your SSF challenge everytime you want, having a higher chance to find uniques would be highly abusable.

The implementation of trading won’t fix any issues that people have with crafting. It just makes gearing easier if you skip crafting (because you don’t like it) and buy items from people that do the crafting for you.

Edit: Just think about why EHG named the SSF game mode a “Challange”

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117

I really dont understand this. I play SSF only atm because it takes more time and investment to aquire the optimal gear

Same for me, the items is the end, but by playing SSF i can prolong the journey, as i feel its too easy by playing SC/(trading)

Maybe its just too early in the morning, and i didnt understand your thread correctly, or maybe im just different than the average SSF player :grinning:

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118

I agree, but someone not understanding a thing is in itself feedback that the devs need to take into account and I think that’s why the devs changed from protections to resists. If they don’t change the thing then they clearly need to explain it better.

IMO PoE’s crafting doesn’t suffer from this particular problem because they don’t show the odds (in-game) and that isn’t a problem because if you don’t get the affixes you want you can just keep chucking currency at your item until you do.

The essential problem with LE’s crafting is that it is possible to brick your item through crafting, and the more you craft the more likely that outcome becomes. That’s why they tell us the likelihood of it happening. Unfortunately people generally don’t “get” probability so you get threads like this (and alllllll the other ones).

So while the RNG isn’t broken or not working properly or anything the fact that a lot of people don’t get it is the problem that the devs need to “fix” (and I think that’s what Mike was referring to when he said it was working but not necessarily as intended).

IMO, the two modes (trade and SSF/Solo) are of different that they need to be balanced separately to give each a good experience vis-a-vis drops. Keep non-SSF as it is now (or potentially tone the drops down a little when multiplayer and trade is introduced) and give SSF a buff to item drop rates. Then never allow a character to be moved from Solo to trade.

IMO that’s the only way for both modes to have an enjoyable experience without ****ing over the other one.

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119

This is true. But often the SSFs I see want their cake and eat it too. SSF gears take more time and investment to acquire, but they don’t want it take too long to acquire, so when trade league folks like me say I want super rare chase items that is difficult to obtain even in a trade league, they curse me for it. Because they basically have no realistic chance of acquiring such items within the constraints of SSF.

120

Which is why I think the two modes should have their drop rates balanced separately.

121

This would probably mean you couldn’t ever move a character from SSF to normal. Hypothetically, would you want to be able to move a character from SSF to normal? (one way trip) I’m not saying you will or won’t be able to do this, just curious what you guys think about it.

122

Yeah. I said further up that if the drop rates were different in Solo/Trade then you shouldn’t be able to move your Solo character to Trade because it would be “easier” (or perhaps, less difficult) to farm up a bunch of in Solo with it’s higher drop rates then move that character across to Trade & profit.

IMO, that would be an acceptable price for Solo having higher drop rates, just like the whole instability/fracture thing is the price of being able to choose what affixes you want to craft on your item (though one can always argue about the numbers, I’m fine with the principle).

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123

Yea. I don’t mind the drop rates for SSF being somewhat higher. But it shouldn’t be so high that trade league people wonder why the hell they are wasting their time in trade.

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124

Yeah, it needs to be balanced. What that actually is, I have no idea.

But I don’t need to. :smiley:

125

Ah ok, I guess i fall out of that category, because i wanna stare at that delicious cake for years without being able to bite it.
Im probably the minority here, but the hunt for the 99% unobtainable item is the thrill for me (played D2 for 5 years without getting the optimal runeword for my chars (solo/untraded), and loved every minute of it)
But ye im not surprised most people want it all :wink:

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126

SSF should always be able to convert to standard in my opinion. No one will force people to play ssf and if they are not okay with the drop rates, etc then they should play standard instead.

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127

I actually agree most with this position. The whiners can continue whining :rofl::rofl:

128

In my opinion it shouldnt be possible, and drop rates should stay the same.

But to make the majority pleased it should probably be as FoE pointed out

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129

I’ve only used SSF on the test client, to have kind of a new player experience. I swapped to normal after the story.

So I’m no SSF guy. I play these games for the mp experience and love having trade as an extension of item gathering.

I would not mind if the SSF drop chances would be increased. As long as it’s not abusable so people farm items more easy, swap over and sell stuff that is rare in normal mode.

But I have to admit that I don’t understand the purpose of SSF then. Isn’t this mode exactly created for being a challenge? Isn’t it that a SSF character that beats arena 300 is considered a bit more elite than a normal character that has acquired items through trading and twinking?

This wouldn’t be the case anymore. Today the SSF guys are the badass mofos. Increasing drop rates would make it the wimp mode.

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130

Just want to jump in here to say that:

  • I want SSF to remain convertible to standard
  • I want the drop rates to be the same
  • I also don’t want drops to go the way of PoE in that build enabling items can be impossible to target farm and therefore can only be reasonably acquired through trade.

I love having chase items, but if a build needs the item in order to even be used, then there should be a reasonable way for SSF players to acquire it. I think these items are in a different class from items that can make many builds much more powerful and are therefore “meta”. Basically, I don’t want to see SSF players closed off from playing some of the most popular builds in the game just because they don’t have reasonable access to the items they need to have. But I do want items that are very difficult to acquire and can have great value in trade Cycles (LE equivalent to Leagues) and also most SSF players won’t have these since they are so difficult to acquire. I hope I’m being clear on the distinction…

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131

I can agree on this. If its absolutely needed to enable a build or to complete some content (besides Arena), then it should be reasonable aquirable.
I just hope it stays somewhere close to where it is now, where no “hard to get” items is needed for any content (imo) besides being able to push arena further.

132

I followed this thread very long without the need of giving my 2 cents.

But with the SSF drop rates i feel i have something to say:

  • I want SSF to be convertable to normal (main reason for me would be, if i decide i want to play MP with my friends on a given char i could convert and just do that)

  • I want drop rates to be the same (that way SSF really can be “compared” to normal character; minus the trading, so if we achieve certain milestones as SSF it really feels good)

  • I want a great majority of build enabeling uniques to be reasonable to be farmed or target farmed (atm we have gambeling + MoF drops). This does not mean i want literally every item to be target farmable, but the great majority should be reasonable to get in SSF

EDIT: Don’t get me wrong on my last point. I do like a long item chase, but i hate to make my decision on what build i want to play in SSF on some item drop decisions.
It is ok, when i choose a build with very specific Item requirement to take a bit longer to “lift off” and get very good. It just should be in the realm of possibilities.

I am ok with playing a build that is “unplayable” before getting certain items.
Builds are so easy “convertable/changeable” in LE, if you have a specific build in mind you want to play in SSF; you easily can play a very very close build, with the same mastery and wait for THAT item to drop and change your build then. Which is totally fine.

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133

Also i am not sure if the current Solo Mode will get any changes when Cycles eventually hit in the future.

Solo mode in LE means absolutely SOLO, you do not even share stash with other SOLO chars. I think maybe we could have 2 different SOLO modes? The one we currently have and another one, where you share stash with all other chars of the same mode?

We could “downgrade” a given char from mode A to B to C if we want.
Solo mode with shared stash gives alot more incentive to play solo for some people that might be hesitant i would say?

What do you guys think?

134

This is simple f2p textbook, everything is watered down behind some additional grind layers.

In poe the grind are really excessive RNG walls, something like 10x rng walls (think about getting the right type, right base, right mod among tens 4 times, the right tier among ten 4 times, and other additional layers like item influence type, the actual item rarity, the mods rarity etc etc)

After that In PoE the p2win is UNofficial so people at glance do not realize the p2win or freemium like in other f2p games

If anybody thinks that such Casino drop system and loot tables have anything to do with A and RPG, and worse if anybody thinks this is how an arpg is supposed to be i strongly disagree and then i’m sorry for those who must have not have had fun in a rpg in a long time.

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135

i completely agree. its like people never played (im going to exclude the big 3)

Champions of Norrath/Call to arms
Untold Legends
Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance
Dungeon Siege 3
Diablo 1
Diablo 2
Titan Quest
Torchlight
Shadows: Awakening

my one biggest and sincere hope (aside from doing something about crafting) is that EHG DO NOT CHASE Grind of Exile. PoE has had a destructive influence on this genre.

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