I mean the main difference is that you can farm respec resources along side of leveling, so when time comes and you want respec, you should have some respec resources in “bank” already. (like in PoE). In LE case, you really can’t bank respec points as you play, thus, it feels much more punishing.
Obvious answer would be some sort of currency, which will either allow you respec without losing levels or maybe some "XP orb, which will instantly gain some amount of XP to your skill. Just some examples.
It’s not a belief, it’s a fact. But as said before it depends on your character level. What level is the char you make your runs? I said lvl 65. It was an estimated value. But I have some characters around that level. I’ll note the time I need to relevel completely from 0-20.
I will tell my “everything is fine” opinion as long as there are people that make a game breaking issue out of the respec system.
Not even close. After about level 60 (even 50 it isn’t that bad) which most characters should be by the time they end campaign (low 50s now, high 50s low 60s once the entire game and all acts are done is my estimate) getting back to level 20 in a skill is maybe 4 or 5 more levels of your character. Heck in one Arena wave up to level 50 you can be at like 15 or 16 from a straight full out respect.) I’m not even remotely a big time player. I am at endgame. I have a character of every current class between levels 65-80. Several of them I have respeced skills on multiple times. It doesn’t take that long at all.
Now at the beginning of your characters life? Sure it does take longer and probably needs a bit of a tweak but the problem here is someone might take 4 points in a skill, decide they don’t like it because it doesn’t ‘work’ and respec it. Never fully testing out the skill. Fully testing doesn’t mean all the way to 20 per se, but it does mean giving it some shots. I respected my warpath paladin (just the warpath skill alone) three different times trying to figure out how to make it work. didn’t take forever and by the third time I was mid level 70s and I think it took me two arena runs and I was at 18.
I definitely think the skills system ‘works’ as it is now mid-late game. I also definitely think that early game needs some sort of tweak but I’m not even remotely an expert on this.
And can we please tone down hyperbolic comments like this? It’s not constructive, it’s not helpful and it certainly doesn’t convey or earn respect.
My highest level char is my BM. He is level 63. He has run Monlotihs up to about level 20, and Arena up to 50. His Wolf skill, first skill I ever specced into, and have never specced out of, is still level 19. I have yet to see a level 20 skill. See my worry?
Okay. But I also read you want skill respecing to be free and unconditional - which will make game much less fun for me so now question is if there is any middle ground for both of us or will this middle ground make us both unhappy.
Because perception is important. You could throw any “logical” argument, i did that too with Diablo 3, but it just does not work. You can never respec in Diablo 3 if you want, but this wont change the fact, there are no character builds, just loadouts.
Even PoE does not allow you to respec freely. You need to level up your gems - yes, when you level them up once, you can keep it and try something different, however economy around gems in PoE is different. You want level up your gems twice, which takes a ton of time and I mean ton. Also you are leveling not just 5 gems but much much more. You really can’t compare it, because in case of PoE, there is actually quite a dedication when choosing gems for your build.
When I feel my choice is just not important, I will lose interest very fast - for me meaningful choice is still bread and butter of RPG games, no matter if it is ARPG or CRPG.
Fine. So as I said, how about a “Free re-specs” option set when you create your character? Then we both win. If player sets it to yes, skills never lose level. If player sets to no, things are are as they are now. You could even include a 3rd option where no respeccing whatsoever is allowed as I know there are some players like to play that way too.
I mean I don’t play hardcore but the existence of the Hardcore option and the thought that others are playing hardcore doesn’t bother me, any more than me playing softcore or the very existence of a softcore option bothers them. Nor should it.
And how would you handle online play? Would free respec characters play together with non-free respec? Meta will be very different in these two cases so I am not sure.
In single player, yea, why not, I could not care less, Also I am pretty sure there will be some mods for free respec in no time for single player so it’s not like it will be issue, but for multiplayer part, fragmentic community between seasons, hardcore and softcore, free respec and not…it feels a bit too much.
Also balancing game around two metas is also a bit problem.
So my “counter-offer” - what about respec orbs like in PoE. Some random drops, which will allow you respec skill points without losing levels?
Of course. You would not be able to tell, so…solved. Do hardcores mix with softcores? Can you even tell? No idea. I see no issue whatsoever. Why would you even care?
Of course you can. In party it will be very easy to tell, who will be respecing for encounters. Also tryhards will always look for free respec party, because optimization is the king for them. Not even talking about ladder, which will be completely broken because of this.
Only way how to deal with it is to separate these two communities. You have to handle it as Self found in PoE.
I really understand the core complaint from most people that want “free-respec”, but i think EHG already did something pretty good with 0.7.8, with changing the exp-curve, so early on it takes longer and in mid-/lategame releveling skills gets pretty easy.
Some of you were talking about 50-ish/60-ish chars, which is roughly the point at which you complete the campaign atm.
The exp-cure keeps on increasing and with lvl 70+ or even 80+, which is still something even the most casual players can achieve easily, this “problem” becomes even less.
Releveling a skills from 1-18/19 takes literally a few minutes at that point. Yes the last level from 19 to 20 can get really long, but as many already have stated, that are happy with the current system.
It reallly make the “progression” feel good. At least for me and a lot of other players.
Just knowing that you can freely respec with any downsides, even if one personally don’t wanna do it, would make everything about progression feel less exciting.
I really don’t understand why people find it so punishing to experiment. I mean the game is pretty easy early on. And you get your 2nd and 3rd spec slot pretty early. In that stage of the game you can easily keep 1 “mainskill” and respecc the other 2 skills every few levels and try out something new. As soon as you get your 4th or later the 5th spec slot, this becomes even less of a problem.
You really do not need “all” of your current spec slots to successfully run the campaign.
EHG already implemented a 1 point respec feature, which is fine, for some minor tweaks or if you wanna test specific nodes within a skills tree.
And if you reached somewhat endgame and wanna do really high content, then respeccing might hurt you build for a while, but then again you can do like a few areans or MoF waves to get any skills to 20 within a adequate timeframe.
When the only argument from the “no free respec” camp is that “it would spoil the game for ME because I want MY choices to matter”, consider me unimpressed. No one ever forces you to press that respec button so this argument is null and void. The fact you know the respec is there and free spoils the game? Grow up and stop being selfish.
I have to ask…How do you possibly handle level 70 then? When apparently respecs are genuinely free and instant? Is that where you quit the game because it’s now spoiled? Serious question.
Yea, sure, because you would not respec before arena/amps or boss arenas, not even talking about ladder. For me, it’s mind-boggling you don’t see such a obvious issues.
In what way would you respec before an Arena? Arena is end game you’re going to go in with your best spec.
Even then? So what if I respec before an Arena? Go me. Good players go in prepared.
You’re claiming respeccing IS already free and instant after level 70 so I can already respec before an Arena with the current set up? Surely my optional button is better for you as well as me?
We are just telling you, that changing it into free respec would spoil the game for us, how it is “spoiled” for you now. Only difference is, that we are just making things up and it would not spoil anything for us, because you said so.
Of course we want game to be as fun for us as possible, you want the same. You are still either ignoring what we are saying, or you are just not accepting it and repeating “noone is forcing you” argument. Stop it.
Why are our arguments different? Because I want everyone to have the option and you want no one to have the option. Very very different. Options are good.
Please answer how you are handling level 70 if you say respecs are so easy at that level? Surely all the drawbacks you are citing against my free respec request kick in for you then anyways?
So the game is spoiled for you with free respec, you say, but you’ve not explained WHY it is spoiled? That’s like me saying the game is spoiled for me because the Hardcore options exists,
