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Respec - How do YOU like, or not like it

Hello,

I wanted to stir up a conversation over a controversial topic in ARPGS, I know people like full respec, and others like none at all, or a “limited” system.

I am more on the side of a “limited” respec, I think it SHOULD be achievable, but only through diligence (Similar to how PoE & Torchlight 2 do their respec). Where you can resepc 1 point at a time. I even don’t mind how Diablo 2 handled it, with the limited amount of full respecs, as long as there is a limitation on it.

I think it adds a lot more replayability (or tedium to some) to level different characters for different builds, I am sure most people pick a skill/character before they start playing anyways, so they know what to build around. I guess all in all, it kind of ruins the “identity” of that character for me if I respec it into a completely different build.

I wanted to know some of your thoughts, and if you dislike my point of view on a respec system, let me know!

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Limited would be fine so long as the replay is not tedious. POE is a good example of this in that it has random dungeon layouts for every zone in the game and allows players a wide range of skills and leveling uniques to play with.

As controversial of a game as it is, I also think Wolcen made the right decision in this arena as well. The campaign story was pretty amazing for a couple play-throughs but with limited abilities and static zone maps, I would stop playing altogether if I had to re-level a new character every time I wanted to change up my build. Fortunately they made it extremely easy to try out anything with only a single character and the only real reason to level a new toon is to change from female to male character.

I would say i can go either way so long as the gameplay to support the decision is there.

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I think the system they have in place right now is a fair one.
If it took forever to level a character I would feel differently about not being able to change your mastery but as of right now it only takes a few hours to get to monoliths/arena so it’s not like terribly cumbersome (to me anyway) to make a new character and try out another mastery.

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You bring up really good points, never really thought about it, but it does have a lot to do with how the gameplay supports the respec option.

I think what they have in Last Epoch right now supports the gameplay, thanks for some insight!

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I personally find it abit too easy to respec skills now.

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My opinion is that the class skill tree and the way we can respec points is completely fine, however the skill passive tree and how respec works there is horrible, especially for beta purposes.

The despecialize option is great obviously but the respec point by point and constant pop up message is quite annoying. The worst though, and this is my main problem, is that we don’t get the points back once we respec one or more. That’s just bad design no matter how you try to spin or justify.

All successful ARPG’s give back your points, it’s only natural since you earned those points by leveling the skill. I find it completely unreasonable that I have to relevel a skill over and over and over and over again just because I want to try out new passives. It decreases my game play experience a lot and there were multiple times where I just said fuck it and quit the game for that day.

It is especially infuriating when there are no skill tool tips added to the game just yet and you’re basically flying blind when it comes to try and optimize and scale up a skill from different sources. Think about it, you respec let’s say 9 points and try something different. It ends up being worse or just completely bad. Now what do I do, my build is worse or unplayable in certain situations. So you respec again, only now you don’t have 9 points, you’re build is already crippled so now you have to slog on and relevel the skill and you’re like, well shit if this is how it feels to try new things then I just wont. Which leads to less build diversity and a swift disinterest in the game.

Please understand I want this game to succeed and I’m giving real feedback on how I feel about the game, no overdramatisation or sugarcoating.

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Personally i think its too easy to respec passives and skill points now it should be more punishing but you should be able to respec tho just make it harder to do so.

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it really sucks! it would have to be less frustrating, both in terms of passives and specializations … how it works in wolcen is great the freedom we have to create new builds.

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I’m in two minds.

I think skill respecs are in a pretty good spot right now, in that it’s fairly easy to make a couple of tweaks, but respeccing an entire skill can be quite punishing. Agree with the above points that it makes it more difficult (and frustrating) to test.

A simple gold cost to respec passives probably makes it a bit too easy. I might change my mind on that once gold has other uses (eg, trade).

I agree with this. I think specializing a skill is enough of a commitment and you should be able to respec points within a skill after you’ve earned them. I have a few uniques I am trying to work a build around but the experimentation is losing its fun because it means another hour or so of grinding to figure out if my idea was good or not. I’ve already committed to fireball, why should I have to waste hours to see which version of fireball fits my items best?

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yes exactly, that.! why should i waste hours and hours just to level up a skill? why not leave it up to date and with the points already earned? do not know…

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Here are my thoughts on why it shouldn’t be costly to respec:

  1. Skill or passive descriptions might be inaccurate, incomplete, or open to multiple interpretations so players shouldn’t be penalized for trying one option over some other option.
  2. Players should be able to respec in order to try out a cool new item that requires a modification to their build, especially if that item is rare and couldn’t be relied on as part of their initial build.
  3. An expensive respec mechanism can cause players to feel locked in to their build which can make a game feel more repetitive to some players.
  4. Nerfs or buffs are not within the control of the player, but they can require a respec.
  5. Allowing players to experiment in game is a good thing and is preferable to having players look up somebody else’s cookie cutter build.
  6. Games like LE are very complicated so even a large amount of planning can result in a build that isn’t enjoyable for a given player.
  7. Investing in a respec isn’t a very fun way to spend your currency.
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I’m all in on limited respec. If you can erase and start over on every character, it decreases the replayability. I like the idea that you play through once or twice, perfect a build, and make it ideal the third time.

The previous poster mentioned how it locks people in / inhibits people from experiencing new builds, which I agree with. But at the same time that’s exactly why I love this type of game. You can’t just switch on the fly and start over. You have to think critically about your build, and if you happen to find the best in slot item for another spec, then you build another character. If it wasn’t for this, every ARPG would be a one time playthrough. For me, the allure of the genre is the fact that you have to learn more / play more / try new builds.

So, like everything else, it’s in the eye of the beholder. It’s up to the dev’s to decide if they want to accommodate a more flexible game that draws in a larger audience due to forgiveness, or a stricter game that may turn off some but increase player longevity. And with that being said, if the business model is to keep making money on MTX, than they are probably leaning towards the latter.

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Late game taking a skill from 1-20 takes about 15-20 minutes in arena. Skills gain exp with you, so at higher levels when you’re earning more exp, they level faster. The need for earning the points back is an effort from the developers to stop people from switching between two separate builds (a “bossing” build and a “clearing” build) at the drop of a hat. They ideally want some investment into a character for it to do both. If they implement your suggestion, that would ruin the whole development decision.

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It’s great as it is. Maybe make it a big harder. If not leave it alone

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IIRC Sarno already said skill progression is rather fast right now, so if you respecc later on it’ll be more punishing from a time perspective alone. Chars are bound to their starting classes and masterys so I’m totaly okay with respeccing because you need to play every new toon through all story parts to get the passive points from quests. This is “punishing” enough from my point of view because who realy likes to play a so far totaly boring to non existend story line again and again?
If there were full respeccs like “choose your base class” or “choose a new mastery” things would be different but as it is right now it’s okay.

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D2 style is the best.
D3 is the worst.
Poe style is between them but If respec must be here : i’m for an easy respec at the beginning ( 1-20 ) and very expensive at high level. Cost % of gold or valuable unique for example in taxes.

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I also think that respeccing should be possible.
But i also think it should be more expensive, thus punishing. In my opinion it should also be possible to switch to another mastery, but this should be even more punishing.
I’m not sure what exactly is planned in the endgame, but if there is an alternate currency gained there besides gold, i would use this for respecc, and the points for a simple respecc of Points something about 1hr running late game content, and for switching masteries something abt. 2-3 hrs + a special item that has to be found?

Also respeccing skills should be at least a little punishing, here i would gold cost i think…

human being is a strange thing in this universe right? He loves to be punished in all areas of life, even in games. :speak_no_evil::hear_no_evil::see_no_evil:

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I like respec to be possible without too much limitation, but not just instantly anytime

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