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Resistance Benefits from Attributes are too low


#1

I have been looking at how skills and resistances benefit from attribute points, and I found a series of patch notes from the Alpha that said this:

Strength now grants 5% increased armour per point, instead of 15% increased armour and 10% increased melee damage per point
Intelligence grants 5% increased ward retention per point, instead of 10% increased ward retention and 10% increased spell damage per point
Agility is now named Dexterity
Dexterity grants 5 dodge rating per point, instead of 30 dodge rating and 3% increased melee attack, throwing attack and cast speed per point
Attunement grants 5 elemental protection, instead of 30 elemental protection and 10% elemental damage per point
Vitality grants 15 void, necrotic and poison protection, instead of 50 void, necrotic and poison protection and 15% health regeneration per point

When equipment is giving you close to 100 protection easily, attributes only giving the player 5 or 15 is paltry at best. As someone who’s only started playing at the beta, what was wrong with the old resistance values? I’m seeing end-game builds with around 800 protection, all of it from T5 crafting.

I am more in favor of beefing up the passive nodes so that they look enticing for players and reduces the “golden path” of passive point selection. As it is, you’re using your passive points for damage, damage, damage, while using the crafting to patch up resistances. I will write up a thread in the Primalist section on its specific nodes, but using 50-60 passive points just to get to a level 40 mastery and only seeing bonuses of 1 attribute point and 10 protection is absolutely pathetic. Once I play around with certain builds, I will share what could be done so that the defensive passive nodes can compete with the offensive passive nodes.


Ward as a mage
#2

You have to keep in mind that attribute points don’t only give those defensive bonuses, they also give damage to your skills and beef up your minions (hold alt when hovering a skill to see more details). I do agree that there is little reason to get attributes other than your main one though, and some of those defensive bonuses are currently stronger than others.


#3

From what I’ve seen in previous patch builds, STR is in a good spot. Wards are already strong, so INT is likely fine where it is, and I don’t know enough about attack speed builds to rend judgment on DEX. Attunement and Vitality definitely need buffs, though.

Builds that naturally rely on these attributes to do damage should be heavily resistant to their own types. What’s the point of being a Lightning master if you barely have the same chance of getting killed by Enemy Lightning as a Voidblade Knight or other unrelated classes? It removes all element of choice in gearing up if your class passives can’t even give you enough staying power to protect you against the very techniques you use on enemies.

I would like to hear from others who have played previous patches to see if there was anything overwhelming about the previous Attunement and Vitality resistance numbers. I have the feeling that buffing their resistances to pre-0.6 values should not negatively impact balance.


#4

The older version you pick, the harder was to gain those attributes. At least I remember it in that way (though there was a short period of easy crafting :smile: ).

Also I felt well the growth of my character’s survival rate with each point of Vitality (+15 necrotic, poison and void). I think the problem may exist in a late game, when other T1 affixes may add more protection than a single point of vitality. But in early game (at least till level 40-50) vitality is pretty ok for me.

P.S. T5 vitality = +10 or even more = +150 necrotic, poison and void protections. You aren’t able to get those 3 in any other way. And the numbers are good, I think.

Strength, Dexterity and Attunement are skill specific. They can’t be considered as protections generators only. Also, they usually grant 4% skill damage, while other character’s passives grant 5-7%. And again, good numbers if you ask me.

Well, most passives at the top are not better than those ones at the bottom. I can’t say this is a good approach, but not bad either (at least for me). In my understanding, you don’t spend points to pick some trash below and get OPs some later. You just move in a chosen direction, advancing your play style and build with each passive on every level.

Also, if the top passives would be much stronger than others, than your choice would be limited - keep moving through one sub-class and get to the top, to 3-6 passives which defines your build’s success somehow.

It’s better to say that “wards are strong”, that’s it :slight_smile:. No one said that Fire Shild’s ward generation is OP or even good, right? :slight_smile:

I mean, ward’s strength is not a merit of INT. It’s because there are good ward generators (Mana Strike and Teleport), and your ward is pretty good even with small amount of INT and retention. Also +max ward does not decrease your protection effectiveness like +max health does :confused:.

Summary: I think current attributes are pretty good.


#5

I actually have question about resistances.
Does resistance work like one of the following;

  • 1 resistance equal 1 of that damage type reduced
    • 1 poison resistance = 1 poison damage reduction
  • 1 resistance equal to a linear percentage reduction
    • 1 poison resistance equal to 1% reduced poison resistance
    • 20 poison resistance equal to 20% reduced poison resistance
  • 1 poison resistance equal to a diminishing return percentage reduction
    • 1 poison resistance = 1% poison damage reduction
    • 20 poison resistance = 10% poison damage reduction
  • Or something else entirely?

#6

I agree with a lot of what you said, but take note, Shaman gets a bunch of nice nodes that give defenses PER totem–so long as you spec into as many totems as possible, you can scale up some of your defenses to alright territory, and you’ll focus on Attunement, which honestly could give better resistances.


#7

Wiki says: Damage Mitigated = Damage Dealt x Protection Amount / (Max Health + Protection Amount)

And this means …

  1. Damage reduction
    = Damage Mitigated / Damage Dealt
    = Protection Amount / (Max Health + Protection Amount)

  2. Effective health increase = Max health / (1 - Damage reduction) - Max health
    ->
    Effective health increase
    = Max health / (1 - Protection Amount / (Max Health + Protection Amount)) - Max health
    = Max health / (Max Health / (Max Health + Protection Amount)) - Max health
    = Max Health + Protection Amount - Max health
    = Protection Amount

So yes, 1 protection point always equals 1 health point. We can check this with several more calculations …

  1. Damage reduction = Protection Amount / (Max Health + Protection Amount) (formula 1)
    ->
    Damage reduction * Max health + Damage reduction * Protection Amount = Protection Amount
    ->
    Protection Amount = Damage reduction * Max health / (1 - Damage reduction)

So …

  • to get Damage reduction = 50%
    you need Protection Amount = Max health (formula 3)
    and it grants 1 extra health pool (formula 2)
  • to get Damage reduction = 75%
    you need Protection Amount = Max health * 3
    and it grants 3 extra health pools
  • to get Damage reduction = 90%
    you need Protection Amount = Max health * 9
    and it grants 9 extra health pools

P.S. it probably can be calculated easier, but this is how I think :slight_smile:


#8

Ill make it simple for ya.

Protection score is 1/2 of hp pool = 33% damage reduction
Protection score = hp pool then 50% reduction

So on so forth


#9

I forgot to note, that protection works exactly like damage reduction - not like additional health. And this means that it also increases effectiveness of any health recovering attributes - regeneration, life leach, even ward (though it’s not health). And that’s why increasing protections has a priority over increasing health.


closed #10

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