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Its way too annoying to respecialize skills now

Even at level 60 the rate of level up from newly specialized skills is like 50x slower than the last patch. Combine that with the difficulty of starting new characters because of level requirements on gear and you have a very unrewarding experience for players who want to experiment with a variety of builds. That would be basically every new player ever(the main focus of this post), and also players like me who like to fully dive deep into build ideas and tweak tiny things on the skill tree to maximize stat output.

It doesn’t make any sense to punish new players in an alpha like setting for choosing bad skill tree ideas. I strongly suggest changing the mechanic back to how it was before at least until beta. And in beta providing a logical and straight forward method for respecializing like the the chronomancer for passive skills. It doesnt have to be gold based but it should be something simple. Otherwise you’re just going to frustrate a lot of players.

I’d like to emphasize that in alpha respecing your skills should be overwhelmingly easy. The entire concept is to try as many things as possible. Especially when its really easy as a new player to pick a terrible build that feels bad to play and might kill the enjoyment of the game when youre stuck with it. This results in people losing interest. I fully believe that this shouldn’t be the case on the full release of the game but this is alpha( there should be a few respecs available in the full version… think d2 skills resets per difficulty type of thing but of course different, perhaps at key stages in the story…after that youre stuck in your choices and have to reroll characters). Let people try things!

I agree. In fact, I had wished dev mode was still available in alpha! The devs seems keen to ramp the grind/progression to release level and I’m not sure why when content is thin.

I’ve been playing very little LE for now because the time investment is too much for the kind of exploration I would like to do in an alpha environment.

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The xp nerf in arena is indeed a bit annoying ^^ And also the passive despecialization costs a ton of gold after a few full reset, could be nice to have a capped gold cost at some point. And also a way to ask for a full passive respec instead of chosing 20 points then 5 and then 1 !

Me too,I miss the dev mode…
I hope dev mode is still a thing for the offline play.
I really don’t want to spend hundred hours to test build.
I play for fun not for grind.

Have to agree with you there as well. Especially with all the changes to dodge/ward. Was trying to experiment with them but its just way too tedious to bother. Basically I get the general idea of the changes, cant be bothered to spend the time to fully explore it. Suppose I’ll make a life sentinel build and then be done with it for now.

On top of that monsters scale way harder with level as far as their max life goes. So basically after a couple retrys you have to start over to even hope to get deep in arena waves or spend days grinding away. But that means starting over with your shit gear because of the level requirements. Even with some of the better uniques (isadoras gloves for example) it still feels really punishing to start over.

Again…when theres content to actually do thats an entirely different story. It should take time and investment. But without content having level requirements on gear only feels like a punishment. Which is why I argued against level requirements at this point (although it seems I was completely misunderstood in the thread…despite saying that I fully support level requirements on the full release of the game). As it stands right now we are just butting our heads against the same wall over and over again. In the previous patch that was fine because the pace was very fast and rewarding. You could try a variety of builds and learn a lot in a short amount of time. The monsters life/defenses didnt scale too badly.

To put it in perspective when you first hit arena you can clear each wave set in a matter of seconds. However with a more powerful version of the same character with much better gear at level 60 it will take you minutes to clear a rare mob with tougher mods. This has the effect of making you feel weaker and weaker on all aspects of the game as you level up past level 20 on your skill tree slots (so 49 is when the last one is unlocked but thats usually the weakest one) …thats about as bad as you can get game design wise when it comes to enjoyment.

Alright I achieved high level! My gear is nearly fully realized! All my skill trees are what I think they should be… oh shit im garbage compared to what I was when I hit arena at lvl 28.

Fun!:stuck_out_tongue:

Agreed. I would add the skills seem to level painfully slow as it is anyway.

Thanks for the feedback. It’s crucial that we get the difficulty curves and xp scaling feeling good for beta.

Both arena wave scaling and level scaling were changed recently and this makes it difficult for us to identify which one (or both) is problematic at the moment. So for reports relating to difficulty and rate of experience gain it would be really useful to know what sort of waves you were reaching in addition to your level.

I haven’t noticed it being bad between lvls 30-50 up to wave 50.

For me the problems were much more noticeable based on character level rather than wave level. At 60 even the early waves felt like a chore despite having most of my gear (gear that easily got me to wave 1570 level 100 in the last patch). Not because of danger (this aspect I feel is much better balanced than it was last patch) but just the amount of hp to go through. It seems that enemy hp scales too quickly based on character level.

As an update, 0.6.1.4 did include changes to various scaling formulas, regarding health and xp, so hopefully things are in a better spot now.

A new more longstanding, but less impactful, issue that’s just been identified is that increased experience from magic and rare monsters hasn’t been applying properly.

  • Magic monsters are supposed to grant 50% more experience, but they were just giving normal experience.

  • Rare monsters are supposed to grant (200% + 4% per level) more experience, but this was being rounded down to the nearest hundred percent (e.g. at level 35 they were granting 300% more experience rather than 340%).

This will be fixed for beta.

I am not sure if this is completely on topic or not. But, I de-specialized while at level 30 I think 14 or 15 points? I thought that I would be able to respec the points in the same skill, but it turns out that was not correct and I would have to regrind the xp. So, I started over the same class. :confused:

That sounds perfectly on-topic. Thanks for weighing in!

The current despecialization functionality is temporary - however we do understand that merely saying this doesn’t make playing the game right now feel any better. As Trasochi said above we’ve recently made some improvements, and we’ll continue to discuss the situation. At this point it’s unlikely that further changes will be made prior to beta.

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This is an ARPG game so you obviously will never have a “dev mode” as that will ruin the entire game. I can list reasons.
a) It makes the game way too casual -> the game will lose alot of it´s playerbase.
b) It makes theorycrafting way too easy -> too easy of a game, people won´t play it.
c) It removes any goals as the goal of any character obviously is to get it into the endgame to try your build out.
d) It´s stupid.
d) had to be noted as it is stupid :smiley:

PS: ARPG games have always been “grindy”…Diablo 1, Diablo 2, Diablo 3, Path Of Exile, Grim Dawn…It is a grindy-genre. MMO`s have less grind, nothing is more “grindy” than an ARPG.

@Tool91 The Pre-Alpha had a Dev mode,just saying.
I dunno if it’s authorized to call different opinion “stupid”?
I play ONLY solo,I HATE MULTIPLAYER WITH A PASSION!
In EVERY single player game before the “everything always online trend”,people used mods…in Diablo too…
But no problem,no dev mode…I’ll use mods in my SINGLE player mode and NEVER touch the multiplayer.
Oh and my favorite “loot” games are Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn…Both 100% playable offline and solo and…with a lots of mods xD
I bought this game for the solo mode after all ^^
Not interested at all with the multiplayer.

That would not be theorycrafting if you would mod yourself to “max everything” and try things out.
That would very much actually be practically testing your build.
Theorycrafting needs to be done for every ARPG out there and should be possible via a skill simulator or a similar thing, the more complex and final the game system lets you choose, the more important it gets (aka. diablo 3 [low investment] vs PoE [heavy investment])

But I am nitpicking here, in general I agree with you. (Wouldn’t call it “stupid” though if people have different opinions.)

I never said you are stupid i did say though that enabling such a mode is stupid. Yes, you are playing singleplayer i understand that but i highly doubt that you´ll be able to use cheatengine anyways. I actually wrote to a game dev on the discord a long time ago, probably 3-4 months ago about exactly this issue. That all files are saved on your PC if you play singleplayer so you are able to edit & configure everything to your liking and he agreed that it is a big issue in soloplay.

No matter how you see it, you are still editing files in a game. I understand that you do not want to play the grindy game but it is an ARPG after all, it´s supposted to be grindy.

I don´t play alot myself as i have a fiaance and a son to take care of.

You can theorycraft without getting yourself max level of editing a file. PoE has Path Of Building and i am sure we will get something similar to theorycraft builds.

And i do agree that i am not here to play multiplayer either, i´ll play the Solo-Self-Found hardcore mode.

I am not sure if that dev i typed to has changed his mind about being able to mod the game files or not or if you are allowed or not allowed or whatever. We will have to wait for an official response from a dev to see if they will allow the game files to save themselves on the computer or if they have found a cleaver way of storing them elsewhere so people can´t mod & edit the game files.

I really hope modding is a thing okay in single player mode.
I don’t like Path of Exile because you are forced to use the basic classes :confused:
I love Grim Dawn and the Diablo 2 total conversion mod.
Would be very disappointed if this game is just another Wolcen…
Why not just have a save for offline AND a save for online with impossibility to use the offline file in multiplayer?

I haven’t noticed the grind being too bad for despecializing and starting over with a new spell. I’ve done it over and over testing different spell combos trying to tweak the efficiency of my builds.

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Same, i have unspecced out of skills only to relvl them a lot. Just to test different configurations. It doesn’t matter to me, the skill is back to lvl 20 in no time.

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If I replace spell A with spell B, and later decide I liked spell A better. Do I have to level Spell A again to 20? I’m okay with it either way, just checking. Thanks.