Maybe have the T6 affix have the range that you have now, and have the T7 affix always roll the highest number on the T6 or even a static number of your choosing, higher, (probably need to tweak them a bit with my idea, ie: buff the T6 affix a bit). This way you wouldnt have to nerf the current affixes in any way and it gives people a sense of getting the best in slot or scaling that peak, if you will.
Everything else will be the same, but at least if you do loot that T7 best in slot item you can be happy that at least that one affix you are looking for, for your build, is the highest you can get. T7 doesnt make T6 obsolete, and should be super rare but it’ll also give something solid and no RNG for the players to reach for. And what a rush when they do loot it. For the example you used, Chance to bleed:
-T5: 32%-45%
-T6: 43%-49%
-t7: 49%-49% (or just make it higher at 50%-50% so there is still SOME seperation between t6 and t7 even at the highest level for them both)
Anyways, it’s just a thought. RNG is super important in ARPG’s, of course, but theres definitely room for some static numbers imo.
Also, in terms of shattering these T6 and T7 items, will they drop a higher number of shards if you shatter them or a least give a higher chance of dropping the shards that they represent? Ive shattered so many items with “damage taken as X shards” on them and receive next to no shards or even just no shards at all from them. While this is just RNG and its fine, it can definitely be a little disheartening. Having a higher number or higher chance of getting the represented t6 and t7 affix shards would definitely give me more incentive to take a chance with shattering said items and keep that aspect of crafting relevant with them. So even if you get some truly useless (to your build) t6\t7 items, youre still gunna want to grab them, 'cause maybe they have one t6/t7 affix that you are looking for, and now youll know at least if you shatter it youll have a higher chance of getting that affix shard or even more of them if you do!
Im not sure if that will ever be an issue as youre still gunna have to rely heavily on RNG for the other 3 affixes, (whether its crafting them higher or just getting the right ones matched with the t7 on the item looted to begin with) and even then getting the right ITEM dropped with a good implicit is heavily RNG as well. Theres always gunna be something to work towards as the chances you have the right ITEM with the highest IMPLICIT with the right 4 AFFIXES on it and all those affixes a T7… yea, Im thinking the chances for that are slim to none.
This even might make some otherwise unthought of builds see the light of day as you’re gunna want to equip that T7 gear you looted even if its not exactly perfect, might open up some, out of the box, ideas.
It’s sad to read crafting is considered inferior to rng/pure luck and therefore by intent is not considered a legitimate way of getting the the ‘top tier gear’. This reduces the value of crafting materials, and like in an unnamed ARPG everyone knows about but I’d rather not mention again, your ‘optimal’ strategy is to just don’t pick up anything crafting related and just use a filter to only show the top items, go quick, kill en masse and just wait for the drop you want.
I’m disappointed.
I hardly believe this will be the case. I read somewhere, drop rates are balances in a way, you will run around with 1 or 2 good crafted Tier 6 or 7 items only. but we will see.
I think that we might have a bit of a miscommunication. It’s more that you’ll find a base to craft on to with a t6/7 affix on it. Crafting is still very important in getting top tier gear. The chances of finding the exact right item in the wild that doesn’t require any crafting is astronomically unlikely.
I’m looking forward to finding a great purple affix only to have the other 3 be garbage and then getting the purple affix removed when using a Rune of Removal. 3 good tier 4/5 affixes will be better than a single good tier 7 affix.
I like the idea of making endgame items harder to get, but It would be great if you reduce the amount of RNG and make it somewhat achievement based. I feel like you have seen the top 10-12 players in the game get those perfect items relatively “easy” and you guys decided that It was too easy for everybody. Imo, the average player would rarely get items to perfect t5s with the current amount of RNG. Just something to think about.
My question about crafting is this, why does it have to be a completely random chance for success/failure, why not add hard to acquire materials that in sufficient amount guarantee a craft. Isn’t it much better for me to work toward something for a week or two and guarantee a craft rather than pray to god that I don’t brick an item in the last 3-4-5 affixes.
Not to mention, this sort of crafting mats that improve/guarantee success rate would automatically create an economy within the game. All you have to do is come up with a creative and balanced way to get them.
PS: A quick and easy improvement could be allowing multiple glyphs to be used to increase the success rate even further, with progressive diminishing returns. In that case, all you gotta do is find the sweet spot for the curve that this diminishing returns would follow.
We need to play a little bit more in the new patch so give better feedback, but T5 should be more accessable now. And devs said they try to balanced around not requireing any T6 or T7 affixes.
But i strongly dislike any guaranteed stuff in aRPG-like games. For me it feels like a asia mmo grind, depending on how much you have to grind for.
People tend to remember more of the bac experiences, than the good. But having thise RNG involved makes you really excited when finally getting a BiS item or an above average item.
And that is exactly the “feeling” that i consider worth playing those kind of games alot.
You and I have a different idea of good and bad experiences. Just because you get the dopamine hit that the RNG system was designed to provide, doesn’t mean that system is good for the community. This is the same reason loot boxes are prevalent in most competitive games nowadays, no matter how much “bad luck” you get, once in a while you hit that one good thing/item that provides that “good” feeling.
I agree that item drops should be based around RNG, but the whole point of crafting items is that the given item is under your control and about how you craft it, not randomness. Not to mention, I’m not proposing making the entirety of crafting guaranteed, just adding things to dull down the complete rng behind it. To give us a little bit more control over our own gameplay.
With those new T6 and T7 affixes i can see how crafting can become a little bit easier. As i already said, it seems that devs don’t assume that most players will have alot or any T6/7 affixes at all. So i could arrange with some stuff to make crafting up until T5 even more accessable or in some cases even guaranteed.
Still i would strongly dislike any kind of “put X amount of mats in” to make it guaraanteed. I would prefer some optional crafting material on top of the current one that is decently rare that can guarnatee certain crafting outcomes.
I think that commentaries on the psychological realm should be based on more than just wishful thinking.
Before I started studying psychology and neurobiology, I used to be adamant on the fact that any and every sort of user manipulation is unethical and immoral but then at one point I had to ask - what’s the solution?
You would not like to play a game where you can predict your progress accurately all the time and know how big the reward is all the time. There is a reason why almost no aRPG is like that.
Without going on a long tangent, we need to abuse our heuristics in order to feel enjoyment in games like these. It just happens to be that Pavlovian conditioning works the best!
This unconscious psychological warfare is also why PoE is so successful. I can tell that they’re very well versed in psychological models and how to abuse them, which I have no problem with.
To add to that:
The current league in PoE is very strong on deterministic crafting and that was the fastest league that I quit, although I’m one of the richest players there every league through crafting, which I enjoy.
That is a highly interesting standpoint. I never thought about from that “more professional angle”.
All i can say, since i played alot of aRPG’s (thousands of hours combined) is that i generally prefered RNG based system in conjuction with “some” guaranteed success systems, which often let you gear up for the actual endgame experience.
So for example guarnateed “mediocre” items (example would be Grim Dawns Factions Gear)
When there is any kind of guaranteed thing accessable in endgame it should be a very rare drop, in LE’s example there could be some sort of rare rune, which highly impacts certain crafts, maybe even multiple different specialised runes.
Yeah, that’s how I like crafting as well but only if it’s not in an obvious way. If it’s not obvious, it creates a sense of pride in the form of being proud to have discovered a possibly overlooked method of increasing your odds of success which other players and developers did not have the capacity to realize. It doesn’t feel like a chore then, but something exciting; as the excitement of the unknown, possibly great success starts to choreograph itself out in your mind. Even if your method came to be not ground-breaking and you were not successful, you still felt the rush of discovering a possible gold mine. If you know that your crafting is not based on uncommon knowledge, this phenomena will never play itself out.
Crafting is a complicated topic and I feel like I should make another thread on it just to explain the psychological aspects of it, at least from my perspective.
I absolutely believe that but I feel that your idiosyncracies and inclination for strong dedication play a role here as well.
A normative value system typically has a singular goal set in stone and the pathway to the goal is how the player’s emotions and actions will play out.
Not denying your prerogative for different values but I’m assuming that you’re treating Harvest more like a sandbox now, which is not how most people play or enjoy games. I would draw a parallel of normally players quit playing the game after they’ve killed the final boss but some still fiddle around for hundreds if not thousands of hours after it. I think the design decisions should be focused more on those who share the behaviors of the majority( quitting after the final boss is dead).
I usually have a single goal most leagues. And that is to achieve 40/40 each league. Once that is done, I quit the league. You may call that my “final boss”. So I have no idea what you think are my “idiosyncracies and inclination for strong dedication”
I am sure you know how much most people play or enjoy games better than me. Because you studied psychology and neurobiology?
So you’re telling me every league, once you killed the league boss you quit the game? If not, and if you agree that different people have different league goals then it is no different from what I reply in the first quote. I usually quit the game when I finish my “final boss” - 40/40 challenges. But Harvest is interesting enough that I stay on to play even after I am done which is not usual.
I think you have no idea how peopl play ARPG. Most ARPG veterans dont quit the game after the final boss is dead. I dont think you do that either. ARPGs are a grind. We kill the league boss over and over again.
Achieving 40 challenges is idiosyncratic and I see you being engaged in aRPG communities more than the standard. This is not a value statement, but an observation. Minus the challenges, I’m similar in that aspect and I take that into account.
If 40/40 was your singular goal and you have reached it but kept playing, it has to mean that you’ve adopted a new set of goals or a style of engagement.
I do know that most people quit after killing the game’s final boss or chapter / tier, I hope I don’t have to start finding studies for something like that to convince you?
Path of Exile also understands it very well, that is why new quests were added after Kitava - to relay information that this was not the final boss which at least some players thought.
I bolded it for you and was explicit on the fact that what my hypothesis is on how you’re playing the game specifically now is an assumption.
I have not made any value judgement and I was very succinct on the fact that I am completely a-okay with everyone having different values.
My goal is typically reaching X amount of mirrors within a specific time frame( 1-3 weeks) but If it ought to be my goal to kill the final boss then yeah. I hope it’s not an alien concept that human beings need a perceivable end-goal in order to start a journey.
If I reach my goal of let’s say 2 mirrors then the next day I give all my currency away and uninstall - every league.
Emphasis is on the word “veteran”. That is why I also made it very distinctly clear that the discussion is about the majority, not the “veterans” who are a minority.
I do not belong in that majority either.
but we will see.