and this needs to be coupled with shifting probability curve on item level drops. When i am L54 then Naginata should be highest probability for polearm drop but when i am L74 Sovnya should be highest and should increase all the way till L100 when nearly all polearms which drop should be Sovnya
How does this improve the fact that players seemingly mostly I assume donât care about getting T20?
Or how does this change the dynamic of: âT14-16 then the opportunity cost of risking 1 or 2 max additional tiers is too high i.e. the cost of me having to refarm or re-gamble a number of base itemsâ?
Could you not get exactly the same results without Rune of Removal and simply just buff the success rates?
Itâs regarding your statement about wanting things being âtop of the topâ which most players seemingly donât care about. Although T20 is not even the top of the top, even this realistic top is not something which most players seemingly care about.
Which makes 99.9% of the loot on the ground useless.
How does it not? If I have my max rolls base, why would I want any other item of the same kind? Aside of course from the purples which drop once out of tens of thousands on a good base.
Thatâs what you do now but wonât if the main item cannot fracture.
Thatâs another topic.
Beating the game doesnât mean stop looking for perfect gear.
Lizard beat end game boss with just a staff. Heâs still playing this game, hovering over each drop everyday.
I vehemently disagree with this on both statements. Firstly the risk of fracturing and rendering the item uncraftable, or worse loss of affix levels Gimps the player because they lose power, or materials and time spent farming said materials, again the another of the main points Iâve been trying to drive home here is âwhy should the player use the crafting system when the chance of failure is largely beyond their control?â and lets face it no amount of guardian or stability glyphs will stop an item from fracturing if the dice are not in your favor.
Also while it may be anecdotal most people donât see T4-5 items from crafting because the item fractures long before you even get to that point, personally the farthest Iâve gotten on an item was 5 successful shards applied before i got a fracture, and i usually donât get that far because I tend to have terrible luck with RNG, and again comes back to the point of âwhy should I do this when Iâm losing materials items, and more importantly, progress when i can just grind loot the old fashioned way and get exp for character and skill levels?â
Now with T6-7 being a thing, again, why use the system when the highest tiers cantâ be crafted?
Which was why I was trying to pitch my idea in such a way that crafted T5âs should be the beginning of the late/endgame, the stuff you made on the way there to get started. Iâm seeing people state that they can monolith run without perfect gear and thatâs great if you can, means youâve also designed a solid build, however, think about this from the perspective of 1.0, after all the balance has been fine tuned everythingâs ready for launch so do not think of it in the current sense how powerful items are, think of how they will fare then. Will T5 still be endgame dominant? or will it be weaker in comparison to future content requiring higher levels of gear? This is why I was trying to make the point of let it be another progression system for the player to reach the start point of the endgame.
Ultimately the crafting system feels like a slot machine (especially with that critical success thing, looks too much like trying to reward someone for hitting big), too much chance and too much risk for loss for it to feel worth it over just farming bosses for drops. Thereâs just too many layers of RNG in the system for it to feel like the player has any control outside of the 1 or two stats they can assure.
RNG for the base item
RNG for base affixes if itâs rare or magic
RNG to get the shards you want/need
RNG after the first shard application to fail
RNG on how damaging the failure is
5 layers of RNG largely outside of player control, when i can just not bother, and kill mobs and only deal with 2 layers of RNG; base item and affixes.
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Apparently heâs not, heâs farming a f***ton of gold & farming the gambler for hours because itâs more efficient.
@LizardIRL
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Wow⌠thatâs even worse when the actual slot machine in the game works better than the crafting system for itemsâŚ
Well, you would still craft on the items you gambled for, itâs jsut a lot quicker to refresh the gambler & buy the base you want to see if you can get 2-3 decent tier drops for affixes you want, then craft them up to 4xt5 than run through monoliths to see the affixes you want drop on a starter tier item (like a Burning Branch).
My point is he still pushing for that perfect item. Whether itâs 4xT5 or higher. Still, even him canât seem to get it yet (or giving it up entirely and try other method).
Well, for me at least, its about the chances of getting a good base item to start from. By that i mean 2 x T4 correct stats at least. The Rune of Removal change would greatly improve my chances of getting more base items to start with (and make drops more interesting esp Purple more valuable / worthwhile) hence lessen the opportunity cost since i have more backups to try again.
Because youâre never going to get perfect items. Like I said, most drops are useless regardless of crafting changes. Youâre always looking for incremental improvements in this game when you reach a reasonable level. The bottleneck called fractures is not the only way to make gear âvaluableâ. You can lower success rate of an upgrade drastically on upper levels. You can make upper tiers take more affix shards to attempt. There are many creative ways to go about it without making the experience intentionally terrible. Why not improve the experience while meeting the goal of making great gear hard to get?
Also most people donât look for top of the top, but games are balanced around that extreme because the people pushing the top end are usually the most visible and vocal. Even if what I just said isnât true, no company would ever stop balancing games around the top 1% or ignore it. So why even bring up the fact that most people donât go for top of the top. As a matter of fact, most players donât go for any endgame activities. They maybe finish the story. They maybe do some end game activities then lose interest. Does that mean donât improve end game activities? I fail to see how itâs even an argument. Donât use âmost people donât go for top of the topâ as a way to counter an argument or invalidate what I said based on that statement. Thereâs many things most people donât do. Doesnât mean you donât deal with it.
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Players also donât always know what is best for the longevity of the game. Players views are often selfish, not in a negative way. They want the game to best fit their personal desires. Devs have a vision and want to see it come to fruition. People that like that vision will come, and those that donât may leave. The players here now will not be the totality of all players to ever play the game.
I donât think crafting in this game was ever meant to take an item from good base white all the way to max stats. Crafting in this game is supposed to be basic adding a couple tweaks to items you find on the ground.
On the topic of crafting changes I would like. We already have a Rune of Shattering. I would very much like the other side of that. I would like a Rune of Reforging that destroys all the affixes but gives back the base item repaired to 2-5 stability. This lets people that fracture their item start over on their good base to try again. Maybe this item could not be used on higher level fractures.
It would also be nice to have a rune that let you reroll the implicit values of an item, although it may not be worth it if the stability added is too much.
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You fail less = less attempts you have to go through to get your T20 item.
Of course, but weâd go from less to more, from 90% to 99.9%!
Improve for you with a very huge
MAYBE
And potentially downgrade for others.
Do not mistake most people as the population of LE as a whole. Most people in my context are most people who will be engaging with high tier crafting systems - thereâs no reason for me to include a population which is not relevant. A person who is in the top 1% of the population also very well can and most often does not care if the item is strictly max tier or not.
Same thing is in PoE - the best players( including me) do not care if the unique or rare items are only at 90% of the roll because itâs inefficient in most cases to pursuit perfection.
This was a refutation to your playstyle( top of the top) which you posed on everyone else.
My point has been that without fractures, even more loot on the ground will be pointless and people will be crafting less, doing less, feeling less, picking up less, swapping items less and enjoying the rollercoaster of emotions less - it will just be a bland grind with no variety while essentially waiting for your item to incubate like a mobile game.
Why not have each tier of affixes consume more shards, but have the crafting be 100%. That way you still have to farm for shards. Iâd rather blow through shards and be able to keep the bases Iâve stored.
I absolutely will not play this game if the current crafting system were to go live. Even these ideas that Sarno has listed arenât enough to keep me in this game when it goes live. They can have my $30 $40, whatever I paid for ea. But my account will be deleted, and Iâll be one less customer they arenât making money off of.
Yes and no.
Depends on character and gamemode.
On sofcore, I am able to make 4M gold a day, to gamble and just get what I want up to t20 items. This is becouse I already have a couple top geared characters.
If you canât make this level of gold, you will rely more on drops, as you will not be able to gamble as much as I do.
My sentinel has perfect rolled gear. All at least t20 items with the perfect stat alocation. I also have 2 t22 items with t7 desired affixes that I found and crafted on. This took me 800 hours (only on this one character) and cost around 50 million gold.
So on my sofcore account, I am literally so rich and powerful due to previous investment that i can just gamble for any t20 item I want. Try to get a t13-15, guardian it till t20.
As of now, this is what craftign is for, you upgrade items a bit before you risk loosing them. If you want to have t20 stuff, you will, normally, need a good base to start. Some people seem confused about how, when and what to craft on.
I do check every purple that drops, as they are my only way to upgrade now.
There is no point for me to look at yellow gear cuz mine is already perfect.
So I been playing with loot filter for a while now⌠xD
Now, when I play solo SFF, I do both, gamble all my gold, and check every item.
I now exactly what I want and I can get a SSF character geared and ready in a weekend.
I do not like gambling but its the best way to get t20 gear and speeds up the procees to test shit in the beta. We know it will change for 1.0 and I expect it to not be even remotly close to what it is now.
The reason gambling is OP its time.
Letâs say you are looking for a Winged Helm base for your sentinel. Can you drop 100 of them in 10 minutes in monolith? No, it would take many many hours.
But if you do an arena run that takes 2 hours, make 1M gold and gamble it⌠You can gamble 200 winged helms in 15 minutes.
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Would you rather there be no crafting at all? I think you are really misunderstanding what the âcraftingâ system in this game is supposed to be.
I love the idea of the crafting system and I love how customizable it is! But when I go through the game on all my characters, and I collect all the high end bases, and then in one crafting session I attempt to craft and fracture them all too early, or get a damaging fracture and lose all my tiers, I really donât appreciate this. Itâs a huge waste of time and energy. Most arpgs have crafting, but in none of them (other than PoE and Vaal Orbs) can you permanently lose an item. To make matters worse, when youâre upgrading a good base item that you were wearing and you fracture and lose it, you have to replace it with a lesser quality base IF you can even find one. Spending more money on temporary, lesser quality gear is not fun. You can actually get DOWNGRADED crafting like this.
Itâs not cool or edgy to have a crafting system with fractures. If I have the items needed, I craft the item. Thatâs what Iâm looking for personally.
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Not to sound mean, but that is YOUR fault for risking your current gear with no suitable replacement.
The system is not MEANT to take bases and craft them all the way. The system is meant to FIND gear and add just a little bit on top.
Crafting in PoE is completely random unless you are rich enough to drop multiple exalts on crafting. That basically makes PoE crafting the same as buying from the gambler in this game. So do that until you find an item that is close enough, then drop some affixes on top of it.
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If itâs not MEANT to do this, then it shouldnât be in the game. Runes of Cleansing shouldnât exist.
Maybe, but a good base with about 10-12 tiers of useful affixes is a good deal better than a good base with no useful affixes.
Not everything needs to have a use in endgame. Iâll only use a rune of cleansing early on when a nicer base drops with crap affixes on it, cleanse it then put 1-2 tiers of whatever affixes I want on it (by which time I probably wonât be able to craft it further).
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