My Account
× My Account Media Forum Supporter Packs

Last Epoch Forums

Which skills from other games do you NOT want to see?


#1

Sometimes in games which have a lot of skills, there can be some which are problematic. They might be overpowered mechanically, not fun to play, or maybe they tried to do too many thing at once - to the point where they would have better envisaged as multiple skills.

 
Some of the skills I’m hoping not to see any equivalence to are;

 
Path of Exile

  • Immortal Call - Immunity to physical damage is far too strong a mechanic imo.
  • Cast When ... Support - These support skills automatically uses skills for you at various times (it varies from skill to skill). This is often used in conjunction with the above for an auto-cast physical damage immunity. I'm not against the devs designing procs, but I don't believe players should ever be able to choose skills to be used automatically. Not in the Passive Grid, not in Specialisations, not on Unique items. Dev-designed procs are fine. This isn't.

 
Guild Wars 2

  • Tornado - Shapeshifting into a tornado and roaming around knocking everything back sure sounds fun, right? In practice it tends to suffer anti-synergy... with itself. Knocking back enemies isn't the best effect for a PBAoE skill to have.

#2

I so don’t want this game to have movement skill meta like in PoE, so no shield charge, no whirling blades or something alike. No revamped skills made as new - what I mean by that is something that path does - there are many versions of skills that follow the same guideline, but one is so much better than others, that it’s not worth to choose anything else. Definitely nothing so broken as Sunder which is semi-melee and before nerf was so strong you were mid-range as melee.


#3

Teleport? I love it, don’t get me wrong. It’s just if only one class gets access to it then it’s broken. If it’s broken then it has to be balanced and that’s when we end up with boring to use D3 teleport on a huge cooldown. If you can give a fair comparison to every class absolutely I would love it, maybe even make it a global skill? If you can’t make it available to everyone I feel like it’s unfair and extremely un-fun to everyone else.

Ridiculous hard CC skills. Freeze enemy for 9 years, ignores freeze resist, bla bla bla, OP OP. Makes a player feel very powerful and fun to use but breads simplistic and similar gameplay. If balanced could be lots of fun but balancing all CC in a game is tall order.


#4

Summons/pets that barely pull their weight. In many games your pets tend to fall way behind in terms of damage or survivability, they don’t have to have the longevity of a D2 necromancer but certainly should feel more compelling than a D3 witch doctor.


#5

Movement skills are fine if they are correctly balanced. POE suffers from 2 issues with movement skills

  1. they have no opportunity cost. There are so many sockets available, you have room for a main skill, a boss skill, a movement skill, auras, etc. In Diablo 3, putting a movement skill means you lose damage directly, as you can only slot 6 skills. It’s a tough choice!

  2. Movement skills usually have a cooldown. In POE some do (the bow ones, flame dash, etc.), but the melee ones don’t, because they have to also be able to be used as main skills (yes, some people actually use shield charge to clear maps…). So you can spam shield charge all day long as a caster with a bright beak, of course it going to be OP.

I think movement skills if done properly are a great addition to the game. I think POE fucked up, but that doesnt mean you need to discard the idea entirely.

For what I dont want to see in this game, the no. 1 gripe I have with melee skills in games nowadays is that they just feel like casting with weapons. In D3, you don’t even hit enemies with your actual weapon when you use Hammer of the Ancients. You hit stuff and your big gavel stays pinned to your back. It completely ruined the skill for me, why is Barb casting an arcane hammer? In POE, can someone explain what the hell static strike, ice crash, molten strike are? You hit the ground hard enough to summon lava balls? Or ice? WTF.

 


#6

[quote quote=2063]Sometimes in games which have a lot of skills, there can be some which are problematic. They might be overpowered mechanically, not fun to play, or maybe they tried to do too many thing at once – to the point where they would have better envisaged as multiple skills. Some of the skills I’m hoping not to see any equivalence to are; Path of Exile

  • Immortal Call – Immunity to physical damage is far too strong a mechanic imo.
  • Cast When … Support – These support skills automatically uses skills for you at various times (it varies from skill to skill). This is often used in conjunction with the above for an auto-cast physical damage immunity. I’m not against the devs designing procs, but I don’t believe players should ever be able to choose skills to be used automatically. Not in the Passive Grid, not in Specialisations, not on Unique items. Dev-designed procs are fine. This isn’t.
Guild Wars 2
  • Tornado – Shapeshifting into a tornado and roaming around knocking everything back sure sounds fun, right? In practice it tends to suffer anti-synergy… with itself. Knocking back enemies isn’t the best effect for a PBAoE skill to have.
[/quote]

 

1- IMHO, to ban Cast when… skill would seriously limiting the gameplay possibilities of an ARPG. With correct limitation, they’d be a boon to the title. Though at current LE state, i see no way to implement the mechanic unto the game.

You do realise there’s a heaps pf possibilities with Cast when connotation, don’t you?

Cast when <insert parameter> to the stat

Cast when <insert player condition>

 

2- Denying shapeshifting mechanic in ARPG could easily led to a catastrophe state on later game phase. An argument of counteractive interaction between skill shown there’s a lack of synergy supported by the Developer in their title - GuildWar2, AS OP/ moderator said.

Should there be a Tornado, player may opt for an AoE debuff or offense to led with the form. Dont you think so? :smiley: Though its better to not have this simpleton pull-out result and have few follow up skill/modifier in same skill-line.

Eg: Any shapeshifting mechanic that result in i- pulling in, or ii- pulling out the mobs supposedly open up to the environment interaction.

Anyway, I cant think of any limitation need to LE creativity at this state. Only guideline they’re supposed to aim is avoid a simple mechanic and think dream a bigger twist to all these existing ARPG title.

 

Cheers :wink:


#7

Personally when it comes to movement skills i do not like the ones that are “spammable”, like PoE’s Whirling Blades, Shield Charge, or in Diablo 3 when you get high amounts of CD reduction ( like 70+ % ) the movement skills become too “spammable” .

Instead better ones are the skill designs that have charges and CD :

  • Flame Dash from PoE is good, it’s fast when it comes to casting and the animation speed is good as well.

  • Diablo 3’s monk dash ability or the Wizard’s Teleport are also nice.

 

If there are abilities like that the developers should be careful with balancing their “spammability” if there are skill tree upgrades for them ( ex. reduced CD, more charges, any kind of refreshes granted for doing/killing something ) because it would be bad if you could just mash them constantly.


#8

Cast When … Support I find it very cool, it creates a lot of possibilities and may fix some problems that some builds might have.


#9

Diablo 3

Battle Rage :slight_smile:

Skills such as this which are better suited to being straight up passives than something that takes up a valuable active slot.

@Sarno. Any chance of getting this topic and the similar (skills you do want to see) stickied?


#10

I personally just want to see some uniqueness in the classes. Every mage has fireball, frost nova, lighting bolt. So either make the animation top notch or use some killer VFX.

  1. Raise Skeleton

  2. Fireball

  3. Frost Nova

  4. Lightning bolt

  5. Multishot

  6. Shieldbash

Basically if its a common skill, I would like to see some creativity with it. For instance, fireball. Have the flames seep from all five fingers and hurl. Not just a parallel shot. Make the player work towards that by spec’ing heavy into fireball.


#11

Done!

I won’t name any names, but someone has recently been asking about forum rules and some information about folks on the team. The rules will very likely be posted and stickied in General. As for short introductions, that could go either way. I’ll sticky the threads you mention and the monetisation one for now, but please understand that I might need to reconsider this later - we don’t want a half dozen sticky threads. :slight_smile:


#12

Thanks. I see what you mean. I assumed the threads would be stickied in general section, but seem to be universally stickied throughout the entire forum.

insert F2p game name here

skill I dont want to see here is the use of the credit card. Has zero cooldown, requires no skill and is totally unbalanced. Lol. Gg


#13

Fixed!


#14

I know it’s not a skill but if you are familiar with Path of Exile then you would know what the Headhunter belt is. Turning any build into an immortal flash is a complete joke and anyone who can’t afford it is just left behind. Amazing fun playing with one but it gets so repetitive so quickly knowing you have no risk of dying.

I know Meta builds will exist, and I am not being super specific here but having one ability so strong that every Druid will use it over everything else (for example) just because of how strong it is, is in my opinion lame. You don’t want players to be gimped because they play the not ‘Best’ skill. Lack of balance is what I do not want personally.


#15

FeZFTB,

 
Thanks for the feedback!

 
I’ve passed that on for you. Personally I’m inclined to agree. It’s fun, but… problematic.

 
[color=#ffffff]Edit:[/color] I have already seen agreement with this.


#16

Welcome to Leap Slam. The attacks themselves are movement, you aren’t going to be able to avoid it. There hasn’t been a person in time that had a sword and hadn’t though to jump towards an enemy with it to cover distance and add alottadamage behind his strike. Leave it alone.

And as for Teleport (so basically Lighting Warp, but sucks less) : welcome to squishy and typically slow classes that need mitigation in some form other than shields made of energy that block naddadamnthing (coughPoE EScough) unless they’re over invested at loss of damage. Teleport needs to remain


What I don’t want to see is boss fights with skills that cover 60% of the stage along with mob attacks that can potentially cover the other 40.


#17

it seems that the thread goes into a direction where more and more are posting stuff wich they dont want to see in the game (not only skills), so maybe you should change the title or we have to focus our feedback only around the skills :wink:

i see there is a long discussion around the “movement” based skills and i think there is no problem with zero-cooldown ones if you consider two things. wich are a) the mana cost, wich can be a good counter. and b) the boss mechanics. that means if you have zero cooldown movement skills you can make bosses with a higher difficult in terms of reaction. thats why in PoE build with 4k life are possible, so you can learn how to perfectly dodge nearly everything. if it had a cooldown i think it would hurt the build diversity because you would need to focus at very high movement speed (queen) or you have to build very tanky so you can take some hits, especially at melee. btw i personally realy like the shield charge tree on the voidknight from the demo because its can do alot of dmg, but the mana costs are also very high so you cant spam it until you have ALOT man reg :slight_smile: and if you can achive that it feels like a great reward.

so and i want to throw my 2 cents into the “what i realy dislike from other ARPGs” pot :wink:
and that is a the part where you stop upgrading your character. that is a point wich PoE has realy nicely done. you have to skills wich are upgrading until lvl 20, your own lvl wich goes up to 100 (and is nearly impossible to achive for casuals), the labyrinth wich gives you still upgrades in the very endgame (uber lab), pantheons etc. what i want to say is that i hope you dont stop to early in upgrading your character in LE. i realy like the idea in having a starter class wich splits up into two new ones after a while. but if that comes to early i see myself of loosing the interest in lvling my character. so i would help if there would be e.g. some skills wich you would unlock in the very end of your lvl progress like in the D2 mod “Median XL” if you know it ;). there you have the choice of 3 very powerfull skills at lvl 90 and 2 additional wich are unly unlockable after a very hard challenge through the whole game. THAT is what makes it so much fun for me to play a charcater so long. the feeling of a never ending rewarding long time upgrade in your character progress :wink:

greetings


#18

it seems that the thread goes into a direction where more and more are posting stuff wich they dont want to see in the game (not only skills), so maybe you should change the title or we have to focus our feedback only around the skills :wink:

i see there is a long discussion around the “movement” based skills and i think there is no problem with zero-cooldown ones if you consider two things. wich are a) the mana cost, wich can be a good counter. and b) the boss mechanics. that means if you have zero cooldown movement skills you can make bosses with a higher difficult in terms of reaction. thats why in PoE build with 4k life are possible, so you can learn how to perfectly dodge nearly everything. if it had a cooldown i think it would hurt the build diversity because you would need to focus at very high movement speed (queen) or you have to build very tanky so you can take some hits, especially at melee. btw i personally realy like the shield charge tree on the voidknight from the demo because its can do alot of dmg, but the mana costs are also very high so you cant spam it until you have ALOT man reg :slight_smile: and if you can achive that it feels like a great reward.

so and i want to throw my 2 cents into the “what i realy dislike from other ARPGs” pot :wink:
and that is a the part where you stop upgrading your character. that is a point wich PoE has realy nicely done. you have to skills wich are upgrading until lvl 20, your own lvl wich goes up to 100 (and is nearly impossible to achive for casuals), the labyrinth wich gives you still upgrades in the very endgame (uber lab), pantheons etc. what i want to say is that i hope you dont stop to early in upgrading your character in LE. i realy like the idea in having a starter class wich splits up into two new ones after a while. but if that comes to early i see myself of loosing the interest in lvling my character. so i would help if there would be e.g. some skills wich you would unlock in the very end of your lvl progress like in the D2 mod “Median XL” if you know it ;). there you have the choice of 3 very powerfull skills at lvl 90 and 2 additional wich are unly unlockable after a very hard challenge through the whole game. THAT is what makes it so much fun for me to play a charcater so long. the feeling of a never ending rewarding long time upgrade in your character progress :wink:

greetings :slight_smile:


#19

it seems that the thread goes into a direction where more and more are posting stuff wich they dont want to see in the game (not only skills), so maybe you should change the title or we have to focus our feedback only around the skills :wink:

i see there is a long discussion around the “movement” based skills and i think there is no problem with zero-cooldown ones if you consider two things. wich are a) the mana cost, wich can be a good counter. and b) the boss mechanics. that means if you have zero cooldown movement skills you can make bosses with a higher difficult in terms of reaction. thats why in PoE build with 4k life are possible, so you can learn how to perfectly dodge nearly everything. if it had a cooldown i think it would hurt the build diversity because you would need to focus at very high movement speed (queen) or you have to build very tanky so you can take some hits, especially at melee. btw i personally realy like the shield charge tree on the voidknight from the demo because its can do alot of dmg, but the mana costs are also very high so you cant spam it until you have ALOT man reg :slight_smile: and if you can achive that it feels like a great reward.

so and i want to throw my 2 cents into the “what i realy dislike from other ARPGs” pot :wink:
and that is a the part where you stop upgrading your character. that is a point wich PoE has realy nicely done. you have to skills wich are upgrading until lvl 20, your own lvl wich goes up to 100 (and is nearly impossible to achive for casuals), the labyrinth wich gives you still upgrades in the very endgame (uber lab), pantheons etc. what i want to say is that i hope you dont stop to early in upgrading your character in LE. i realy like the idea in having a starter class wich splits up into two new ones after a while. but if that comes to early i see myself of loosing the interest in lvling my character. so i would help if there would be e.g. some skills wich you would unlock in the very end of your lvl progress like in the D2 mod “Median XL” if you know it ;). there you have the choice of 3 very powerfull skills at lvl 90 and 2 additional wich are unly unlockable after a very hard challenge through the whole game. THAT is what makes it so much fun for me to play a charcater so long. the feeling of a never ending rewarding long time upgrade in your character progress :wink:


#20

it seems that the thread goes into a direction where more and more are posting stuff wich they dont want to see in the game (not only skills), so maybe you should change the title or we have to focus our feedback only around the skills :wink:

i see there is a long discussion around the “movement” based skills and i think there is no problem with zero-cooldown ones if you consider two things. wich are a) the mana cost, wich can be a good counter. and b) the boss mechanics. that means if you have zero cooldown movement skills you can make bosses with a higher difficult in terms of reaction. thats why in PoE build with 4k life are possible, so you can learn how to perfectly dodge nearly everything. if it had a cooldown i think it would hurt the build diversity because you would need to focus at very high movement speed (queen) or you have to build very tanky so you can take some hits, especially at melee. btw i personally realy like the shield charge tree on the voidknight from the demo because its can do alot of dmg, but the mana costs are also very high so you cant spam it until you have ALOT man reg :slight_smile: and if you can achive that it feels like a great reward.

so and i want to throw my 2 cents into the “what i realy dislike from other ARPGs” pot :wink:
and that is a the part where you stop upgrading your character. that is a point wich PoE has realy nicely done. you have to skills wich are upgrading until lvl 20, your own lvl wich goes up to 100 (and is nearly impossible to achive for casuals), the labyrinth wich gives you still upgrades in the very endgame (uber lab), pantheons etc. what i want to say is that i hope you dont stop to early in upgrading your character in LE. i realy like the idea in having a starter class wich splits up into two new ones after a while. but if that comes to early i see myself of loosing the interest in lvling my character. so i would help if there would be e.g. some skills wich you would unlock in the very end of your lvl progress like in the D2 mod “Median XL” if you know it ;). there you have the choice of 3 very powerfull skills at lvl 90 and 2 additional wich are unly unlockable after a very hard challenge through the whole game. THAT is what makes it so much fun for me to play a charcater so long. the feeling of a never ending rewarding long time upgrade in your character progress :wink:

greetings