strawman much??
how is adding 1 more slot in any way the same as putting them all in the action bar…
And I perfectly understand the concept and it would be better with 1 more, its that simple, its not that anybody would not understand the system and the pros and cons of adding another slot. We just feel the game would flow better with 1 more.
Don’t get that “strawman” thing, but my post with the one big action bar was a reply to another person. You obviously mixed it up.
From your reply it did not seem like you would have understood the concept. So please accept my apologies for replying to you.
Again, in general sense, if you are like “I just need one more button and I should have everything what I need” is exactly, what they don’t want to have. In any build, you should feel you are making hard decision. If you are thinking about two skills and you can take them both, no decision here.
Look, I am not sure if 5 skill slots is good amount, i really can’t tell yet, I just got feeling that many people here are asking “just for one more skill slot”, which leads me to believe, that aside of summoners, 5 skill slot limit is working as intended.
And even if it is working as intended, you still can disagree with skill slot limit idea, I think it’s good to have this conversation.
This is correct. But:
The number of combinations when selecting x out of x is exactly 1.
The number of combinations when selecting 1 out of x is also exactly 1.
Somewhere between 1 and x lies the maximum. And I dare say that maximum is not 5 if you have enough skills (my guess is more then 11) to choose from. Because I am on holiday I cannot see how many we have actually.
Also, the number of skill slots could be set apart from the number of specialised skills you have. So you could add all skills to the bar, only have 5 specialisations, and then you have the same amount of builds. Where I define a build by which skills you specialise in.
On over half my builds I’ve always felt, man it would be great to have just one more skill. Never more than one though.
That tells me 5 is the sweet spot.
One more and I feel like there wouldn’t be as much thought behind making a build, it would be too simple. One less (four) and I think it would be agonizing. So I’m pretty content with five.
Primalist, with bm spec has access to a potential 22 skills, taking into account impossible to reach skills such as the other two mastery skills. Using ncr/related principles 11 skill slots would result in the maximum combinations available, if mah napkin maths are correct.
However, it’s unlikely the majority of builds actually allocate passives this way in order to have that number of skills. It’s more like 16-18 in reality. So 8-9 slots would maximize theoretical build combinations.
I think the devs are considering complexity on both their end and ours when deciding on 5 slots. The difference between 5 and 8 slots with a ~16 skill pool is like quadruple number of possibilities. This isn’t even counting skill tree nodes and all of that. Also, the left hand in standard wasd+shift or qwert positioning has access to about 5-7 buttons without modifiers, making the 5 slot setup simple and psychologically pleasing. Or, if you prefer, common gaming mice have about 5-7 buttons.
With the pairing down of the acolyte skillset, it looks like the devs are going to attempt to normalize the theoretical combinations across classes and then scale the maximum number of skills upwards. If so, it would make sense to keep available slots to 5 as any higher and the number of possible combinations to balance starts to get out of control.
5 slots having 4x the possibility of 8 slots. There are more diverse builds now that there would be if we had more slots.
Also if we had 10+ slots here is how it would be abused. Shaman can now autocast tornado, mealstrom, avalanche, ice thorns, and have a saber tooth a wolf a bear and a scorpion while using leap to get 100% more damage frenzy totem and storm totem on autocast swipe for more attack speed tempest strike to ger all the mana back. Thorn totems proc on hit. Light strikes every spell thats cast and im healed. The build would be the only build the shaman could do because it would have everything… Lol and be stupid OP
This I agree with. Especially when skills procing other skills you have a free slot because the procced skill doesn’t need to be on the action bar. Filling this slot with a not specialised skill or having a not specialised skill that procs seems like wasted potential.
Would be nice to have an additional specialisation slot.
To whom it may concern
With 16 skills possible to choose from
5 skills specialized = 4368 possibilities
8 skills specialized = 12870 possbilities
Formula used is a non repeating variable so skills dont repeat or change order with same skills used.
N!/(S!(N-S)!)
Where N is number of skills to choose from and S is number of specialized slots
Sacred 1 & 2 also had 5 active slots, though you could combine up to 4 in a a combo which would take up a slot (but be able to use 4 attacks/spells in a row).
You are right.
What I wanted to say is that it is not true that increasing number of specialisation does not automatically mean number of possible builds is increased. It depends on what exactly you chhose to be your N and S. You gain the max number of combinations when S is exactly 1/2 N. For your example N=16 it is S=8. If you chose to have more than 8 skill slots your number of different possible builds decreases again.
N=16, S=9 =》11440 different combinations
But you are right on one point. As long as the skillpool we can choose from is not exactly 10 skills, 5 spec slots is not the number that enables max build diversity.
But on the other hand I doubt that every single combination of 5 or whatever skills would make a viable build. A combination of 3 stances, RoS and SoH on a Sentinel isn’t considered a build, imho.
The last part of your point hits the nail on the head!
It doesnt feel like creating a build when 4 skills are already preselected because of being unmissable.
Yeah. I get your point. There are mandatory skills on most of the masteries This leaves very few variable slots you can define your build with.
Doing the exact math thing does not represent if there is any increase or decrease in build diversity at all. Not sure why some of you tried to do the exact math on that^^
There are combinations that just don’t make any sense or wouldn’t be taken by any human player anyway.
I still think that the current 5 slots are perfect, it’s enough to make great synergies, while having enough room for diversity. You can fit in 1 or 2 main damage skills, while still going with utility/movement/buff stuff.
6 or more slots will most likley just lead to people taking as much “passive/tempoary” buffs as possible, while still mainly using one or maximum 2 actual damage skills.
And if EHG keeps the 5 slots while increasing the number of available skills, the build diversity will just get better and better. Especially when they carry on delivering excellent specialisation trees, where the same base skill can be taken in such wastly different directions that it can fit a plethora of builds.
And for all the summoners out there, wait for 0.7.9, i am pretty confident that with the new acolythe skills there will be plenty of good options for a more active focused summoner playstyle(and there are already a few anyway)
Most of the time i wish there was one skillslot more and that’s the sweetspot for me. I wish there was just a little more = everything is fine :D.
Sorry about that 
My idea was that if you have 5 to choose, but one or two almost mandatory, it then leaves just like three different skill to really choose. Then some of them work together better then others or you need at least a single target / AOE / CC and there you go, almost no choice at all imo.
I still like the idea of all skills available on the bar but only some to specialise. Then I can still use non-specialised skills situationally. I guess I like the feeling of having a variety of different approaches each battle.
This could be easily fixed if you could combine the summoning skills, e.g. Sum Skellies also summons skelli mages. This could be done with nodes in the skill, e.g. a node in the skelli mage tree “gets summoned with the skill summoned skeleton”
I’d love to see more slots for skills to specialize in. I’d like to train ALL my skills to level 20, thus I could switch builds easiert… 5 active skills in bar is fine and a skill only gets level if it’s on the bar, but why am I limited to only 5 skills that I can level up? If I have room for 1 skill, or if I dispense 1 skill from my bar and sacrifice some defense to level up a skill I might want to use one day, why am I not allowed to do so?
I also think that leveling skills should be much harder in the endgame than it is now… now it takes less than 15 minutes in arena to get a skill from 1-20…
One thing that might be nice would be to have an additional mobility slot that can only be filled with a mobility skill. Since mobility skills make gameplay more interesting and improve quality of life, it feels bad to give them up when there’s a clearly superior mechanical choice. It sucks to say, “I’ll have more fun if I take lunge, but I’ll be stronger with ring of shields” for example.
This I could potentially get behind. I still think 5 is the sweet spot so if this were added perhaps it would be a ‘dummy’ skill meaning you could slot it in that ‘sixth’ spot but it wasn’t a skill you could level up. So you could take advantage of the baseline mobility but wouldn’t get buffs from it.
If you did it this way then I might even be convinced that it could be opened up to any skill, as long as it was a ‘dummy.’
Again, totally my 1¢ worth. The gurus and dedicated players on here will have great insight whatever the case.
Yup, ncr formula. Binomial coefficient or something, can’t remember exactly.
As I mentioned above, without directly mentioning it.
Yeah I thought about including a tidbit about that, you beat me to it 
But like, working out the mathematical theory behind the implementation is important!
That’s not bad I guess, but could result in “sameness” and/or mobility skills that are also decent damage being tuned and losing thier edge.