Tweaks and QoL - My Wishlist

Hey there,
Because you guys from EHG make a good progress (shown in the teasers of patch 0.7.8) I get a little bit nervous you might have nothing to do after the upcoming patch. So here’s my personal wishlist of things I’d like to see tuned a bit in case you get bored.

Again this is just biased feedback and personal flavour. I don’t have the attitude that “all these things have to change or LE will fail”. Maybe here’s something in for you that is usefull.

I tried to list topics that are not that frequently suggested on the forums. Here we go.

Introduction To Crafting Too Late

The Introduction comes with a quest at the Outcast Camp what usually is above character lvl 20 and after choosing the Mastery. Is it intended to be able to craft before this quest? It seems so because there are shards dropping at low levels everywhere. New players will have discovered the crafting mechanics prior to this because they heard about it (chat, forum,…) or accidentially opened the tab before. Else they will be a bit baffled that a mechanic this mighty is intrioduced that late and feel like thy have missed an opportunity to make better progress before.

Solution

  1. Start the quest when reaching the council chambers – New players don’t loose much when they aren’t aware of crafting prior to this point
  2. Start the quest right after you rescued the blacksmith in the Smelting Halls AND make crafting NOT available before completing this quest – this would also fit better into the story
  • Add a hint to the “Info-Button” on the crafting tab
  • Also add a tutorial hint to “stash crafting material” button

Choosing Mastery - Enemies Spawn Endless - Confusing

New players don’t realise that the enemies spawn endlessly and they just have to run through. What’s the point behind this? Imho these shadows aren’t a real thread so it is meaningless that they spawn. Solution:
a) Cap the number of enemies per plateau so they don’t spawn endlessly
b) Give the player a hint – a voiceline of the main char talking to himself like “This is meaningless, they don’t stop. I have to get past them somehow…”


Picking Up Quest Items (e.g. Ezra‘s Ledger) Feels Clunky

The item does not appear or is automatically looted. Your don’t really notice htat you pick it up. Solution:

  1. Make Quest items drop with a unique color and marker similar to unique/set items and let them make a unique sound when dropping
  2. Or handle it like interacting with a quest NPC. Give the Chest a “?” above and add a dialogue window saying “Pick up The Ledger” like the Quest at the Welryn College

Affixes Of Minor Impact/Usefullness

There are minor affixes that only increase the affix pool and so reduce chances to get the desired gear like a sort of “play-time-extenders” that lengthen the time you need to min-max. They are not bad but nothing anybody aims for:

  • Stun Avoidance
  • Chance To Blind
  • Chance To Chill
  • Chance To Shock
  • Chance To Slow
  • Increased Shock Effect

Maybe some people don’t agree with me and have found good use for these in their builds. In this case I would be glad to learn about it. I had complaints about the CC effects, too, and made a post about it. But many other people here think they are in a good spot. Maybe it’s the same with the affixes above.
Also I have to admit this are very few affixes considered “not that usefull” by me of a very huge list. It’s quite impessive there aren’t more.

One possibility to make these affixes mor meaningfull would be to add things like “Stun Chance increased by 200% against blinded targets” on skillnodes or passive tree nodes.

Attributes On Gear Not Important

When listening to the theorycrafting experts here, it is not recommended to put certain attribute affixes on your gear that support your skills. There are exceptions like int for ward builds. But str for sentinel / primalist is not recommended. The effects on your skills are weak compared to other affixes that also scale with your skills like direct “increased %firedamage” for fire related skills. Maybe attributes on gear should be removed completely (you could instead ad x%ward retention in exchange for int) or make them more meaningful and desirable.


Skillnodes Not Scaling With Main Class Attributes And Their Own Skilltags

One Example is the Sentinels Shield Throw. The skilltags are [base damage type] (could be physical, fire or void), throwing attack, Strengh and Dexterity (why dexterity?). The Skillnode “Eruption” adds a spell called “Lava Burst” on riccochet that scales with Spelldamage, Firedamage, and Attunement. The only synergy this skillnode has with the main skill is Firedamage. I don’t complain that there are no viable skill combinations. But they look weird. For Sentinel one would be a staff wielding Forge Guard in full plate armor scaling spelldamage to have most synergies with Devouring Orb, Smite, Sigils Of Hope and Shield Throw (without even wielding a shield…) that all use the “spell” tag. (There are so many spells in the Sentinel Masteries)

Another example is mana strike. Its tags are Lighning, Melee, Intelligence and Dexterity (again Dexterity). The “Mana Storm” adds a spell tag. So I am picking a nice weapon to add flat melee damage to my main attack skill, but nodes inside the tree of this melee skill don’t scale with the melee damage, but with a damage tag (spelldamage) I don’t use that much as a spellblade, which would be the common mastery for using a melee skill.
I am not saying this is all bullshit and doesn’t work. But it’s not very intuitive and catchy. I can’t decide if I like it or not. This requires thinking about your build what is a good thing in most cases. On the other side it limits the build diversity because some skillnodes require certain item setups with the tags these nodes scale with. Is this a bad thing or does it force structured character building even more? I don’t know. What do you think?


Character Screen Stats Not Very Catchy

What bothers me the most are the %values on the stats screen. There are some tooltips but you don’t get the meaning of many mechanics.

  1. Protections:
    a. Mitigation % has no real meaning because it’s dependent on health and protections value. E.g. solely decreasing health points results in a higher Mitigation %. This implies that you have gotten better gear when it is not the case.

→ Show the sum of protection and HP for each element. Seeing this value increase = good, decrease = bad

  1. Some %values are the result of a formular based on a rating (e.g. dodge), some %values are the rating itself (e.g. critical strike avoidance, glancing blow) and some are the results of an invisible rating (critical strike chance). What I mean is:
  • Dodge: +20% dodge means the dodge rating value is increased by 20%, it’s not the chance itself that is increased
  • Glancing Blow: +20% means exactly this – your chance to receive a glancing blow is 20% higher than before
  • Critical Strike Chance: Increased Critical Strike Chance by 20% means that your base value of 5% is increased by 20%. So instead of 5+20=25% you get 5+(5x0,2)=6%

→ Make it more obvious to the player. Perhaps replace the +X% critical strike chance with a multiplier like “critical strike chance x 0,X”
→ Add information how the ratings and %values are calculated. E.g. on moseover on dodge you could show

  • Dodge Rating: 180
  • From gear (Rating/Modifier): 50/100%
  • From Passive stats (Rating/Modifier): (40/100%)

This “from gear” / “from passive” would be a cool info to be added to every value on the screen on mouseover


Respeccing Can Be Very Unconfortable

Respeccing skills and passives can be a pain. Taking skillpoints out of skilltrees requires to click the “respec 1 point” button for every skill.

Taking skill points out of the passive tree works better but can be a pain when you reach the point where you can’t take out more points because of the minimum requirement for other nodes. When you only have one point left this leaves you with putting one point into the new passive, clicking the npc to respec the next point so you get another point to spend, abort respecing, put 1 point in your tree, click the npc again to respec the next point,… and so on.

Solution

  1. Passive skills: When entering respec mode you should be able to respec as many points as you wish without confirmation. Beneath every skillnode the number of skillpoints you specced before is shown. Every right click removes one point. When you accidentally right clicked a skillnode left click adds the removed point again. Of course it is not allowed to have any node to have more skillpoints than before starting the respec. Maybe also highlight the nodes you took points out, make the numbers beneath the skills red and show the actual number it would have after respeccing. At the end you click “end respec”. There’s a confirmation popup where you are asked whether your choices are correct because it cannot be made undone. Click ok and it’s done.
  2. Respeccing passive trees: Same here. Enter respec mode and you can take out points with right click and add points with left click. Because you get all your points back there don’t need to be any other restrictions besides the minimum requirement. But the check if your skill choice meets the restrictions should be done at the very end when you click “end respec”. If you have made an invalid choice the respec cannot be confirmed and you stay in respec mode. You can abort to undo all changes or correct your mistake. Also highlight every skillnode you have taken points out where it is not allowed. This way you can temporarily have less skillpoints in a node than required, but you are able to rearrange your points without having to switch modes. For example you can take 4 points out of your base class tree leaving it with 16 points. On an info panel you get the message “requirements not met (-4)”. The number in the brackets shows the number of missing points in realtime. Now you put these 4 points into another skillnode in the same tree so you have 20 again what is the minimum requirement, if you have points in the other mastery trees. While you are in respec mode the gold amount you have to pay for respeccing is shown in the info panel in realtime. If the fee exceeds your current credit you cannot proceed. You can end respeccing at this point or abort. With clicking confirmation you are charged the fees

Crafting Tweaks

Crafting is relatively confortable I think. But I’d like to have three minor tweaks

  1. When I scroll down through my shards and decide to craft on an affix I already have on the item it would be nice to be able to click on the affix on the top window to jump directly to the affix on the top of the shards list
  2. The affix tooltip shows “adds X to…”. Would be awesome if it shows the exact value/min-max range. If it is an affix you don’t have crafted on the actual item (or no item is placed in the forge) show t1 range, else show the range of the next tier that will be applied when crafting.
  3. When you use rune of removal show the affix that has been removed for a few seconds

Make map exploration rewarding

Actually there’s no need for exploration. There are a few chests on every map and perhaps you can find a nice shrine, but nothing that makes people explore the whole map. And because the maps are fix and there’s a quest marker guiding you, you just run the straight way through. So I made up my mind what would me personally make exploring the map. There are two possible ways:

  1. Make exploring mandatory by hiding things that are needed for character progress (e.g. idol slots, passive points, XP boosts for char or skills) - The con is that people are forced to do this so for people who like rushing through the game it is an unpopular feature so I dirctly jump to…
  2. Hide “nice to have” things on maps that nobody really needs but are just cool. For example add customisable player banners and let the people collect the coolest symbols and artworks for them. Or emotes and/or cool character voice lines the player can trigger manually.

How this can be done:
There could be minor and major achievements that are tied to a certain area or timeline or even to the whole campaign.

Map related

  • Kill 7 Wengari Patriarchs on map X
  • Open 9 chests on Map Y

Area related

  • Kill 3 specific named mini bosses in the area around Welryn - These Named Bosses have several possible spawnpoints on each map that surrounds Welryn in a radius of 2 maps. Only 1 can spawn per map.
  • Activate 7 shrines in the area around the temple of eterra

Era related

  • Kill X rare enemies in the Ruined Era
  • Fully reveal all maps in the Ancient Era
  • Activate all waypoints in the Imperial Era (also make waypoints have random spawnpoints on each map that are rolled when entering a map)

These achievements also could be interlaced. So for completing a map related achievement you get a bit of gold as a reward and!/or XP. For completing area related achievements you get crafting mats and/or a rare item (let the player even choose the crafting mats or the base item for the reward). For claiming era related achievement rewards you have to complete all map related and area related achievements. Rewards could be titles like “Voidwalker” for completing the era achievement.

Rewards in general could all revolve around prestige. Banner elements, badges (shown on ladders, perhaps even on forums), titles (shown in badges), pet skins, weapon/armor skins, capes (requires capes as an additional item that also can be customized like banners).


Achievements

Achievements and cool rewards for completing keep people playing even if they have max level and items. This could be things like described above as well as additional things that only can be completed with leveling several chars:

  • Level 1 char to 100
  • Level 5 chars to 100
  • Level a char of every class at least to 80
  • Kill Lagon 20 times
  • Complete the story 10 times
  • Reach Monolith lvl 100
  • Craft 50 items to fully t5
  • Gamble 200 items
  • Complete the story without dying
  • Collect 1.000.000 gold
  • Collect 100 unique items
  • …. (could go on endlessly)

As for rewards, simlar to the previous suggestion, this could be everything related to your planned MTX stuff, just not thas cool like the stuff you guys are gonna charge real money :smile:


Everybody who got this far: Thanks for reading. I hope my post doesn’t contain that many things that are already answered on Discord or elsewhere.

Have a good time!

6 Likes

I would also agree that the maps require more “things” in them to encourage map exploration. I’m also not the biggest fan of the map pointers for the missions which, from a design perspective, basically encourages players to just run through everything following that arrow. But that’s just me, and there’s certainly less hand-holding ways to go about that if they so choose.

Though, my main critique about the game is the lack of its overall use of the time travel mechanic. There’s one mission that uses it, Great/Ruined College, but it’s seemingly criminal how little it is incorporated into the overall gameplay. From the descriptions of some of the endgame modes it sounds like they may incorporate it, but I hope future content looks to the unique opportunities presented by this mechanic. I feel it opens up a lot of possibilities beyond just following the main story arc that, for the most part, requires little input (or thought) from the player in terms of time travel selections.

3 Likes

I was getting a little bored, I’m sure we could find something to do in here :wink: These are all off the cuff replies and I can’t guarantee any will be done.

I am very interested in what other people think about these also and suggest that you leave your reply before reading mine.

  • Crafting Too Late: Yea I would agree with this, I think we might move it up to the council chambers at some point. Maybe after a side quest? I like linking it to the smelting halls quests.
  • Endless Enemies: I like the voice line hint. I’d be concerned about people who play with the sound off completely. Maybe some void that expands behind you forcing you forward>
  • Quest Items Feel Clunky: Yea, I’m not sure if we will make them a physical item, letting them be dropped is rough, especially with the zone persistence the way it currently is. I think the item icon probably needs to be moved to the quest tracker to show that you’ve got something.
  • Niche Affixes: This is one that I think is really important to keep around. The individual drop rates of each affix shard (not as a property on a magic item) probably needs some tweeking but I think having these less awesome affixes drop is a great way to scale power over time for new players and make finding the perfect item just a little trickier. Exact rates will be tweeked as time goes on. Who knows, we might add in a way to use them in a non-conventional manner.
  • Attributes Less Important: Yea, we are looking at the balance of attributes for a later patch but it’s for sure on our radar. Personally, I’d like to see a little more diversity in attributes at end game. Like having the numbers look a little more leveled out at end game would make me happier. I’m not talking even but seeing builds with 0 Str/Dex makes me sad.
  • Skill Scaling Woes: This is a really deep one and you bring up some very good concerns. Lots of the effects on skills start out as “wouldn’t it be cool if…” we do our best to consider the most obvious combinations and try to make every option feel good. I think we do a much much better job of this in newer skills. The process to make a tree has been dramatically refined over the years and most of the problematic nodes you mention are on the older side. I would expect lots of these to get tweeks as time goes on. Great list though, I’ve copied it in to my notes.
  • Character Sheet UI Woes: 1. Yes. 2. Little trickier but yea, I think those are good suggestions.
  • Respeccing: Sorry, not going to talk about that one right now.
  • Crafting Tweeks: Yup, love em all. No promises.
  • Map Exploration: Very cool topic, I’m actually binging a series right now called BossKey which dives very deep into this very topic. It’s focused around metroidvanias and other adventure games but I think there is a lot to be learned from it. Grim Dawn does this very well and I think we could probably do it better. I do know that Rik is waiting on some toys that he requested a long while back to be able to add in some things to zones that he has planned. I’m not a huge fan of the Kill 7 of this type of enemy quests, I much prefer the, find this item that can drop from any but it’s in one specific random one so it’s guaranteed to drop if you kill that many but you can get lucky and get it early. I think we’re getting kinda close to achievements with some of these and look at the next category…
  • Achievements: Yup, they are coming.
8 Likes

Your poor parents, was your christmas wishlist always so big and took forever to read? :wink: just kidding great summary.

  1. Introduction to crafting too late: Definitly i was wondering why that quest even came up so late.
  2. Enemies spawn endless - Didn’t bother me i was never really fighting with them for too long and always went to the mastery classes
  3. Quest Items feel clunky: Yes, i would prefer solution 2 over 1.
  4. Affixes of minor impact: I would definitly like to play around them more often, especially later in coop playing with friends (a friend of mine always plays the tanky/support guy, i want him to freeze, stun everything, while i do the big numbers :smiley: )
  5. Attributes on gear: Please do not remove them completely, problem is the attributte scaling with skills and how your build looks at the end: 0str , 0 dex, 50 attunement, 2 vit… i dont know that looks weird in the char sheet, thats why they dont feel rewarding
  6. Skillnodes not scaling: Yes i was also wondering why both str and dex. Yes it’s hard to scale both since Lava Burst scales with Attunement. Now we are back at the problem from the point before, i would like to put more points in different attribute points to make some interactions like shield throw and lava burst ‘‘possible’’
  7. Character screen stats: You made very good points and ideas, i personally also don’t like the current character screen, but it will hopefully change when they work on dmg tooltips.
  8. Respeccing: Agree
  9. Crafting: Agree with all
  10. Achievements: Not mandatory for me but fun to have and they will come
  11. Make map exploration rewarding (thank you for bringing this up i wanna talk about this as my last point): Probably the biggest problem i had with LE coming from different arpgs.
    Grim Dawn and PoE are the best examples because they both handle map exploration completely different. PoE randomly generated maps=makes every leveling with a new char through the campaign different and exciting, the problem is that you cant really explore something because there are no treasures or whatever, it’s all about reaching maps. Grim Dawn has a big world, hidden areas to explore to find treasures, problem is that with your 2nd char you already know where everything is which makes replayability a little bit less rewarding than playing more chars in PoE (in my opinion). LE went more the GD way in terms of world map exploration, problem is that the world is not comparable to the size of GD and the rewards in side maps without quests are not satisfying:

You already answered it, people coming from PoE will hate this, people coming from GD will love this.

This is exactly what i always wanted from an arpg. I hate target farming like d2, i hate boss runs like mephisto, baal runs whatever, the maps are always the same, i’m not the person who can run the same map 1000 times in a row, it gets boring for me.
I don’t know in which direction LE is going to but i would like to see a mix of both GD and PoE, exploring the world like in GD with randomized maps in early game(what gd doesn’t have, only in late game because the technology was not there for them) and later randomized maps like PoE (what LE currently already has with monolith runs). Only thing i hope is, that the campaign and early leveling in LE stays interesting and forces players to explore, to expierence WOW moments everytime they level another char, otherwise i can see the ‘‘PoE effect’’ that everyone rushes the campaign to reach Maps and endgame. Probably the most difficult game design but one of the most interesting topics in arpg in my opinion.

Again good job on the summary @XLVI_carpo and i hope i could help with some topics and ideas @EHG_Mike

5 Likes

Response below each item:

  • Introduction To Crafting Too Late
    I agree
  • Choosing Mastery - Enemies Spawn Endless - Confusing
    I think the current choose mastery quest is oddly not connected to everything
  • Picking Up Quest Items (e.g. Ezra‘s Ledger) Feels Clunky
    Clunky - yes
  • Affixes Of Minor Impact/Usefulness
    You have to have some less desirable loot to balance things out
  • Attributes On Gear Not Important
    if attributes affected other stats more strongly than your skills some builds may have a reason to use more variety of them
  • Skillnodes Not Scaling With Main Class Attributes And Their Own Skilltags
    No comment
  • Character Screen Stats Not Very Catchy
    I like the character screen as a first draft but feel it definitely could use some refinement
  • Respeccing Can Be Very Unconfortable
    I personally like have to make careful choices and there being consequences for butchering a build to the point of having to start over - just me
  • Crafting Tweaks
    Crafting system is a solid base I feel. Of course it needs refinement over time. If crafting could upgrade base item stats as well as affixes might give more room for creativity
  • Make map exploration rewarding
    I was thinking that Last Epoch did a pretty good job of putting loot chests around the levels to give a bonus for exploration. If rare monster ecounters were more interesting and rewarding that would also increase reason to explore. In D2 I would explore lower levels in Hell difficulty to find rare packs that I could manage to solo for the better XP and loot
  • Achievements
    I have only found achievements interesting if they point out things to do in the game that I may have not noticed otherwise, but I am not a checklist type of person

As for the killquest I am not a fan of “kill x of a certain type”. It’s just the first possibility that I thought of - and the most boring, I agree.

To make map exploration more interesting there have to be some random factors, imho. When it’s not the level design than the points of interest have to vary.

The D2 comparison is good. I don’t remember the names but there were named rare encounters with special abilities connected to certain zones. So when you leveled a new char you sometimes searched for them or you ran for your life :laughing:.

For me the chests are not a factor that convince me to explore the whole map. The rewards in these chests don’t make up for the effort. One way could be to improve the loot. And make the spawn locations more random so they still spawn at the edges of a map but not at the exact same location. Because when they are at the same location every time it happens what @TriKster says: it get boring with time and just expands your obligatory route through the maps.

This sounds familiar and reminds me of the Lost Memories System you describe on your homepage.

At the beginning of the Ruined Era there is a quest that makes you explore the map an rescue people at different locations. Something similar could be done as a random task that are rolled when entering a map. So create a pool of tasks like rescue people, find certain items, activate something. Ok this sounds more like additional quests and may again force people.

In Guild Wars 2 there were point of interes on every map that gave you a small reward when finding all of them.

Since we are using bullet points i’m going to use them also

  • Crafting: I really like the idea of using the smelting hall as a intro to crafting. Maybe put a forge and a npc with guided dialogue. Likely somewhere near the npc we meet during the quest there. I would also like to see another crafting item that does something with minor fractures. Feels really bad when you craft your dream item and everything is going right then you get a minor fracture and its game over. Would be nice if there was another item that could mend a minor fracture but would add increased instability on the item which would make additional attempted crafting potentially dangerous to the item.

  • Affixes: I absolutely love crafting in this game. I don’t actually feel as though there are any affixes that are necessarily bad. Crafting is also so good in this game that you aren’t entirely hurt for picking up choice blue items that have partial crafts of your intended item. Being able to pick up a random blue with a T3 and T2 version of your end goal craft and then crafting it up to your dream item really eliminates bad affixes being a problem. Also because there isn’t really a bad affix per say other than something like dexterity or attunement as a off class attribute.

  • Attribute: Now this is where I have beef. Attunement giving 5 elemental protections is bad if you want to create more diverse attribute sheets. Getting attunement on a character that doesn’t have explicit ability scaling with attunement is not a wise stat investment. When tier 5 crafts on items can reach 270 elemental protection added, attunement offering 5 points per just doesn’t scale at all. I have a similar gripe with dexterity and vitality. I feel as though all attribute stats should be percentage based. Strength is 5% but strength only benefits armor which only covers physical damage. This should mean that if vitality or attunement were percent based as well they should be 1/3rd value of strengths bonus. Since those stats cover 3 damage types each instead of 1. This would also mean that there would be a need for a 3 stat protection coverage added for poison, necrotic and void. Either that or use those protection types as a stat tax for the suffix slot. Either way I enjoy the game no matter what happens to attributes.

  • Skill scaling: I would like to say that in terms of balancing and impact of skills, that rip blood is a perfectly balanced and well designed skill. It has so much utility and diversity in its skill tree that I have actually created almost 5 different builds that use it in completely different ways. In future updates on how to scale a skill I would say look at skills like rip blood, since they are wonderfully implemented. I am sure many people who main things other than lich could tell you their favorite skills as well.

  • Achievements: Yay achieves! I know Masochist mode was added as kind of a joke but could we please have a separate ladder for it and better recognition for masochist players? I’m not advocating for achievements added for masochist mode only, just it would be nice to be able to compare progression with other players in masochist mode instead of comparing to players in normal mode.

Thank you for your response and hope you have a nice day.

1 Like

I like the idea of random tasks that are rolled for a new map. I feel it would also be cool to add in randomly spawned rifts in certain areas of the map so exploring would be more worthwhile. Specifically have rifts with exclusive bosses that drop their own uniques or have increased drop rates. Like the orchirians petals from that flower boss. Between randomly spawned chests, mini quests and rift spawns I think maps would be worthwhile to explore for the player.

1 Like

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