Trading! or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bazaar!

Developer Blog
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I get where you come from, but than i’d dare the Question, does this really outweight the negatives? I mean the reason why all this handled in this way isn’t because Devs enjoy to take us away the fun, but rather to do the opposite and they saw how much (negative) impact can something have if you give the player to much freedom. I’d argue (good) Game-Developing-Philosophy isn’t only about the “obvious” leads and / or what tools they give to to player, but also (lead with) stuff hidden behind the Game and you won’t see as players, or don’t get why they exist… like Limitation. They also decide a part of the Game identity and what Vision is behind it… how a game is supposed to be played or how it try’s to avoid it how it shouldn’t be played.

In this case, everyone who have atleast a bit of experience with Online-Games should know in this time and age, how much impact too much freedom for playertraiding can have for Players. For the one(like i pointed out) Game-Design-Decision which comes on the Developer side, where they (might) need to adjust player-droprates and such, so said Feature make sense and gives you value, and how all this can kinda “destroy” the core-part of the Game… like Diablo 3 as they stitll had RMAH… the other side is also the Community or part of the Community, which can also have an Negative Impact… from making a Game so economy-driven that it converts from an fun hack’n’slay grinder to an Trading-Simulator-Management Game up to even more problematic Goldsellers and stuff.

Again i’ve to point out, i’m not in particular against an “Buyout” feature for Bazaar, nor i’m truly against classic limitless playertrading where folks like you can cashout free stuff for newcomers. But sadly even in Gaming-Industry there are some nice stuff we can’t have, because other people would abuse it… and to have, as examples, this overly gold-sellers spamming because it’s easy access for them due limitless playertrading and stuff could honestly something which me (and many others i guess) drive to the offline play…

I really don’t want to be that Guy, who comes up with that arguments, but i’d argue Last Epoc is still it’s own Game and doesn’t neccessary need to do the same as other competitors. In worst case scenario if they don’t see your or better say poe’s way to fit their vision, than you still have PoE to play which cater more towards your needs.

And i’d argue thats pretty arguable and an (subjective) matter of Perspective, because many People, most likely the majority of People, who enjoy this Genre do it for the Item-Hunt a.k.a Grinding. There were many folks who played Diablo 2 for 12 Years(myself included) and never had fun with trading, or further, even touched trading. And if i look at the backlash of Diablo 3, i’d go even as far and dare that majority of people really didn’t like it all, otherwise they wouldn’t have scraped it entirely.

Not saying that there isn’t a (huge) Portion of Players who does enjoy it, but to claim as a fact that Grinding is Boring and Trading is fun… i’m sorry, thats only your opinion and you can’t talk in this subject on behalf of every other player here.

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My problem with trading in games it either (almost) needed to actually progress or it’s near useless.

I do find having a limit you can sell at the same time refreshing, would love to test it.
But I do have one request, dont have uber rare items (like poe’s headhunter), I want stuff to be more reasonable findable.

I do understand GGG somewhat in the regard of if you make trading too easy, people use that AH to upgrade their gear iso playing the game.

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Yeah i understand what you mean, though (and i think someone pointed already out) i do think in any case bazaar can appeal the crowd / worth it, thanks to the amazing CraftingSystem. If you are unlucky or don’t want to go into that much of depth with Crafting, i’d argue Bazaar could be a good place to look for crafted items you might look for.

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What’s wrong with chase items? In fact, I would prefer there is a wider variety of chase items in LE like in POE’s early days, compared to now where only HH remains.

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I prefer more attainable items, not the you-just-won-the lottery type of loot. There is a difference in needing to spend weeks if not months to gain a certain gear vs an hour.
Imho there is a thing called being: “too rare”.

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I like unrestricted trade on the market, but I prefer it being heavily automated and anonymous.

On another MMO, I ended up spending about 90% of my time staring at the market. On the other hand, I hated the market in PoE so much that I gave up and started playing SSF just so I wouldn’t ever have to deal with it.

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They can go ahead and have an even WORSE trading system than PoE (which is itself bad), but all it will mean is they get less players. There’s absolutely no reason to make a better trading system but they refuse.

I’ve only started playing Last Epoch a couple weeks ago, and already, I’ve played PoE more since I started playing than I’ve played Last Epoch. It will probably stay that way if they continue to try to “be their own game” and refuse to do stuff people like. lol

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you might want to reorganise your thoughts on that post. It’s incoherent.

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You probably meant “no reason NOT to make a better trading system”.

Regarding your opinion on what people like, it is what it is: your opinion.

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Yeah typo. My bad. But it was obvious what I meant.

It’s an opinion, sure, but an opinion held by many. Lots of people are complaining about this trade system. There’s a reason no other games have week long auctions only.

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GGG argument about tading being bad is (analogy)

We want to encourage people to use our (poorly run, contant breakdown/delay, smelly & crowded) subway, therefore we do not repair the roads, fixed the potholes & broken traffic lights.

Call me crazy, but I think if you want to encourage people to use loot they found/craft, then make loot & crafting better, NOT make Trading worse!

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I agree, PoEs trading is terrible, I have never traded in that game as it is just too hard. Which then makes the game harder, which is frustrating to play, which means I no longer play PoE.
I do worry if the currency for the Bazaar is gold, as as of 0.7.7, there is no real gold sink in LE, and for the Bazaar to work, gold needs to be something players want. The only real use for gold is to gamble.

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the only thing I do not like is the basically account bound high unique. I would be fine if you make it so they can only be traded once or something like that, but if i get some hyper unique item to drop that is useless to my characters I don’t get why selling it to someone that wants it is bad just make it so it can only go through the bazaar once so buying and reselling aren’t a thing

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very good point

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Last Epoch Trading

No account bound items

Trade cooldowns on items so that they can’t be re-listed within x# of days of purchase (like steam community market) to prevent and deter reselling on top of the fact that it is an open auction so price would be determined by actual demand

100% free market of the bazaar think of eve online no min or max sale price of any item

When a seller lists an item on the bazaar it’s starting price is 1 gold to make the first bid,
there is no buyout, the seller has zero influence on any sale price what so ever

To prevent a situation similar to BDO where people pay others just to list an item to have the chance at buying it, make it so you can’t bid on items listed by players you’ve been in a party with, whispered or mentioned in chat within the last x amount of time (30 days?)
(Sorry you’re not currently able to make bids on this players items) this would also prevent gold sharing to friends through self inflated bidding

in order to prevent bots sniping items when ever a bid is placed on an item have the time remaining on the auction be extended by 30 seconds

Allow friends to trade any items or crafting materials other than gold

Items received through trade from a friend can not be listed on the bazaar or traded to anyone other than the original items owner, once possession is returned to the original owner they are free to list it on the bazaar

The seller pays the tax to make the listing, the amount of tax paid is a percentage of the estimated sale price determined from previous final sale prices of similar items, minimum sale price able to have tax collected on it is like 10 gold to prevent times when the the seller would make no gold from the sale. if the final sale price of the item is lower than the estimated value the tax percentage is applied to the actual sale price

The tax paid by the seller is paid after the sale occurs when the collect the funds to prevent a scenario where a less wealthy player cant afford to sell an endgame item because the tax is more than they have liquid

To prevent botting have the seller need to pass a “small marketing test” (game themed and lore fitting and non immersion breaking captcha) in order to successfully list an item

To prevent rmt I think the longer you are friends the more “valuable” items that can be traded not through the bazaar is a good start but also setting a “value” limit per account per league that can be traded before setting a flag for manual inspection for suspicious trading habits

Having a maximum concurrent number of active listings set to 10-15 I think is more reasonable for those of us that play a lot and end up with a lot of loot

And I think that making it so that a player can’t remove an item after it’s been listed is a good thing to prevent price fixing however I think it should only be in effect after a bid has been placed on an item to be a little bit forgiving to legitimate accidental listings ie 2 similar looking idols but one is +7% max health and the other is +6%

I think that these implementations of the trading would make the game more enjoyable for everyone other than those that seem to just want to play ssf anyway so just have that as a game mode and everyone should be crisp a jar of pickles

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5 items limit ResidentSleeper

i stopped playing a while ago waiting for new content which none of arrived for months on end, i have 20+ stashes full of uniques/epics/sets waiting to sell, then u tell me 5 items -_-

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It’s not clear how trading will look like yet. However, once multiplayer releases all characters and items we have will be in “offline” mode. So in the online mode, you will need to restart completely and I’d assume that trading is only for this mode. The restart is necessary, because currently everything is stored on your local pc and not on a server, so fraud cannot be rules out.

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Word is that you’re still planning to stick with this plan from 2018.
If that is true, you’ll have to reconsider or risk annihilating the multiplayer experience.

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The “Word” you’re getting is inaccurate.

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not read through the whole thread of replies, couldnt be bothered, so if anyone has already said this, then apologies.

Uneeded and unwanted friends lists incoming just to trade, why do i need to be friends with someone just to swap some items with them? Doesn’t make any sense.

Just take a leaf out of most MMO’s book whereby if you do a MP activity, the loot is tradeable for 2hrs between those party members, regardless of friends lists, after 2hrs the window is closed.

Over complicating something so simple for what?