Context. I exclusively play HC toons, and usually play sub-optimal builds that are full of interest and heartbreak. That is, while I appreciate the focus, intellect and community contributions of a Boardman21, I don’t want to play his builds. The ladders are not my friend. I prefer snakes.
So … I get that the skill trees offer tradeoffs and require players to make choices. And choice is a good thing. My choices are not yours, and yours are not mine. Regardless, choice should come with consequence.
Which leads me to a suggestion for choice with consequence. Players should be able to tradeoff a skill choice for an additional +20 skill points to distribute among their existing skills. So, if I run with 4 only skills, I get +20 skill points to distribute among the 4 skills I’ve already chosen. For every skill I ‘sacrifice’ like this, I get +20 skill points. 3 skills = +40 points. 2 skills = +60 points. 1 skill = land war in Asia, that is … inconceivable.
[edit - see discussion below] Players should be able to tradeoff a single skill choice for an additional +20 skill points to distribute evenly among their already existing skills. That is you lose a skill choice and get 5 additional skill points for each of your other 4 skills.[/edit]
I’d implement this (if I could remember how to code Fortran or Cobol) by adding an unlinked ‘Sacrifice’ node in every skill tree, which - if chosen at the cost of 0 skill points - disables a skill slot and adds +20 +5 skill points to all other chosen skills.
It’s beta … embrace the not-D4/POE2/GD/T3. And spit on the grave of Wolcen.
Yes, I’ve been drinking. There’s beauty in Whisky. And truth in Tom Waits.
Let’s say i sacrifice two skill slots. I gain 40 points. Enough to allocates EVERY points in a given skill tree. Some synergies that have been built with having in mind choices, (and therefore excluding some of them) would totally pile up making the skill way too broken.
So either you chose to nerf the nodes that give the synergies, effectively nerfing “normal” players with all their slots, or you make some nodes on the tree antagonistic. So effectively keeping the “choices” aspect in there, and artificially not letting you allocate as many as you would have wanted to.
I also want to point out that i can see normal builds sacrificing everything but 1-3 slots after having theorycrafted the highest dps possible. And I don’t think it would be interesting for the game to have less playable skills per build. (Just having a “boosted” defensive skill a"boosted" offensive skill and “normal” movement skill would be sufficient…)
But the idea itself is fun and interesting. So maybe as a unique ? Where it would give you ONCE 12-20 points but no more than 4 per skill tree ?
I was also very interested in the idea of rares rolling “+ 1 to 4 passive fireball points/level” affixes. That could be super rare, and make people hunt for them. While still taking an offensive or defensive affix on the item.
I never submitted it because i’m too lazy to make a whole topic for it. That and maybe asking for more “affixes” on rares. (to 4 from 6 slots for example) But maybe the legendaries will be exactly that. So i prefer to wait and see !
Don’t want to see this unless the devs figure out a way to effectively discourage typical ARPG one-button DPS spam because this idea would totally encourage that.
Mhm. Sounds the same as you get x skillpoints that you distribute over all skills. So you might max all nodes in one or two, or spread them over more, however you want. I predict the result will always be one skill completely maxed and this is no good for build diversity. Sorry, do not like it.
You don’t get 1 skill builds in PoE. You may get builds that use one damaging skill that swaps out gems depending on whether they’re clearing or single target, but they all use more than “one skill”. I suspect most builds in LE at the moment use one dps skill & the other 4 are either movement or support skills, same as in PoE.
Actually, PoE devs mentioned “one skill builds” as main issue of character customization. One of the main reasons is that most characters have just one 6 link item.
Yes, you have some other skills, but they are most of the time completely automated, auras, curses, proces via damage taken etc. If you want be very creative, you will put another skill on totem
In LE, if you would allow players to “re-arrange skill points” from other skills, meta will be very simple, you really need one damage skill, which will have like 30-35 points and two other support skills… Like PoE does.
It’s slippery slope and I am not sure it can be balanced.
I have to disagree with you here. i’ve sink 3K in PoE, following guides at first then making my own builds and now playing only self made builds in HC. I’ve made builds around almost every skill in the game. Most builds are about one skill. This is especially true since the craft on weapon that trigger a skill after using another. Or some use the numlock trick. For warcries or arcane cloak. The rest is what auras ? Sometimes a totem on a big boss ?
I’ll give you that : there are trigger skills, like cyclone coc/cwc or spellslinger but you effectively build one skill. Sometimes two, like ice nova and frostbolt that’s true.
Most of the builds i’ve played this last leagues didn’t even bother to gemswap anymore. My clearing dps was enough to deal with the bosses (excepted maybe sirus a8 to avoid quick deaths). So i was effectively only pressing one skill while clearing. Well that and flasks. (sadly)
The main difference with PoE and LE right now is that we actually have to fight longer, so using more skills might be and feel more organic. They really should double down on that.
First, thanks for taking the time to consider and comment.
I take the point about balance and super-stacking skills. I absolutely agree that this’d need a skill pass, however, these are non-tested assumptions at this point. I see this risk mitigated by existing skill tree factors such as: skill nodes not being impact cohesive; non-synergising effect nodes; skills with exclusive aspects; incompatible or skill tree limiting nodes; and cumulative skill red text penalties.
As for low button use criticisms, I don’t see these as valid. Why? Autocast and stacking Cast on Hit Totems.
Finally, as a personal design philosophy marker: if skills are designed so that 5 give less synergy and/or utility than 4 or 3 skills then that’s a bigger issue in itself.
Regardless, I’ll propose a change to limit impact:
Players should be able to tradeoff a single skill choice for an additional +20 skill points to distribute evenly among their already existing skills. That is you lose a skill choice and get 5 additional skill points for each of your other 4 skills.
