After being really happy about the skill progression lost changes i still think its to punishing.
Iam level 74 now and having to re-level my skills is still a pain in the ass. I tried some different skills and tinkered around to find what worked best for my build combinations.
The result was spending hours and hours of releveling my skills.
The problem isnt there really until you hit level 17/18 on your skills. After that it takes way to long to level it up. If i was sure to keep playing the rest of the month with this skill it would be acceptable.
However iam the type of guy who likes to try things out.
Trying things out is fun and beside that i try to find the best combinations myself. Now i feel forced again to look on the internet what the âbest builds and combinations areâ. Instead of trying new things without being punished and farming safe just to re level my skills.
I really dont get this approach and it just feels bad. You can prevent skill swapping for a boss for example with way less XP amount needed.
The most fun i get of games like this is of trying NEW things out and new combinations that others might not have tried.
This system is preventing me from doing that without spending hours and hours before i can actually try things out again. If i dont like that combo again i have to do the whole proces again and again. The result is many lost hours, frustration and not progressing in the game (since the skills are not good enough yet to progress in the timeline).
This means more deaths so i get double punished. In the skills and in the game progress.
I really hope you revist this choice and nerf the XP you need in the last levels.
I releveld the same skills so many times now. There must be away to not having to do this or safe xp for certain skills in some way after leveling it once or many times. To prevent skill swap abusing (since i think thats the reason your doing this).
I really feel bad for all these lost hours. I just want to be able to try different comboâs. i guess i keep playing the same thing for now so i can finally progress in the game and actually start playing the game again
Disclaimer: I even liked the âold systemâ, which was way more punishing.
If you get even higher, or at least doing higher content, like the 90 or 100 Timeline, releveling becomes easy. Yes the very few last levels take a little bit of time, but those donât matter for âtest out new skillsâ. You do not need all 20 skills points in a skills to see if it works or not(at least in the majority of cases). There might be some edge cases.
I need to stop time for releveling skills, but it doesnt takes âhoursâ for sure.
I think the devs really did find a solid middleground between the âold systemâ being too punishing and being able to hotswap skills without any consequences
I think where things are right now is really good. You can get a start on a skill (10 points upon despecialization), but thereâs still some form of permanence to your character. Personally, I think characters having some form of permanence or identity is important, but I realize this is my preference.
Out of curiosity where are you farming to level new skills? Monolith will be much slower than arena and most skills can be level up to 20 in the process of a single arena run. Also are you respeccing all skills at once? This can be done, but might make the process slower since you wonât have a fully level damage skill at the ready.
I already reskilled all 5 skills, starting at 10 again on several characters. Iâm a notorious reskilling maniac. Even if a build is working, Iâm constantly switching and swapping skills in and out, respeccing passives⌠Iâm fine with the current system if you are already at a higher level ( so you get that 10 points).
The starting points are enough to try different directions of a skill instantly. And as @Heavy said itâs not necessary for your build to have 20 points allocated.
The last 3-5 points are for min maxing the skills potential. The key nodes are already chosen at this point. Going for that important nodes at first before filling the rest is your own choice and can be done in 95% if the skills).
The only concern I have is the early levels. A new player that doesnât know a lot about the game mechanics and skill behaviour may want to experiment a bit more. There are a lot of skill changing nodes on skills that alter playstyle and synergies so this may not really work out in the first place.
The early levels I think, are still too punishing with respeccing skills.
Respeccing skills feels good for me personally and I donât need that early level experimenting anymore. But I wonât mind if it would be changed in favour of new players and still tweaked a bit towards being more forgiving. Giving early levels a bigger boost on skills that are respecced and maybe even shorten the way to skill level 20 wonât hurt the âmeaningfull decisionâ approach, imo.
Yes, itâs not that hard at higher levels (80+). But why not make it 10 minutes at all levels? Why has it to be more punishing at lower levels? Whatâs the achievement? Whatâs the sweet spot for preventing hot swapping skills and donât make it feel punishing at all leveling stages? Is it the currently implemented system?
Definitely a hard one to pinpoint. âWhy not 10 minutesâ can easily be a slippery slope to âWhy not 0 minutes?â with the same question: Whatâs the achievement or goal of having leveling skills take time?
I already mentioned for me itâs about character permanence. This is at odds with the need as you mentioned for new players to test out skills before they know what they really want to use. Thatâs a really good point because when I make a character I already know the skills Iâm going to use on it since Iâve played with the game a bunch.
Hereâs an off the wall idea that would attempt to address both the permanence aspect for people like me that like it, but also address the desire for experimentation and earlygame flexibility:
Introduce a new skill feature alongside âSpecializeâ to be called âStudyâ. If you choose to study a skill it will level up at a faster rate (1.5x? 2x? etc) but have its level capped at 10 (15? 10-15 scaling with level?). To get beyond the skill level cap you would have to choose to specialize the skill. Once a skill is specialized it would no longer gain the xp bonus. This would provide that level of finality or permanence as the last few levels still take a bit of time. If you respec a skill while itâs still being studied you retain more skill levels than otherwise (maybe drop to 75% of current level? e.g. 10 would go down to 7) to allow newer players more freedom when testing out skills before specializing in them.
Another option that is much simpler and goes better with the âstudyingâ theme could potentially be to provide a 6th skill slot. This skill slot wouldnât be for specialization, but for studying a new skill and gaining skill levels that wouldnât gain the benefits of yet. Once the studied skill is at the desired skill level you could replace it into an empty skill specialization slot with its current skill level.
This system would allow you to plan a respec in advance for a single skill, level it up to match your other skillsâ levels, and then swap it in once its usable.
I level them in monolith. Thanks for the tip! i going to try it in arena next time.
I was scared to lose my key to soon since i need to level the skills thats why i didnt.
Arena has really high density and little downtime, so itâs pretty time efficient to get exp. If you leave the arena by taking the âclaim rewardsâ option thereâs a chance youâll get another key from the rewards chest.
If you donât have a lot of keys then holding off makes sense. Farming up several is a good idea and they also sell for a lot, 6500 each!
Well the last thing you say is exactly the problem that ive had about a new player experimenting with things and making mistakes.
Iam well known about the POE system after a few 1000 hours and a lot of reading but a lot of things and skill combinations are different in LE.
I would love to see an Arena/test place were you can try things out more freely first without actually getting the skill at that level. Lost Arks system does this really well. On a certain point after 30 levels or something you have the option of trying the masterys skills etc out. Spawning mobs yourself in that test area, it is really awsome and beginner friendly.
@Heavy Why do you like this system so much? What is the fun of having to do that proces in a long window? I dont like it anyway and i think it is a waste of my time that i could have sinked in tinkering around my build or actually playing the game. I respect your opinion though. I also think it is fine that they got this system. I only wish they would lower the amount of it.
Not to be rude but sometimes on these forums it feels like that the guys who are high level already and played this game for a long time are having a hard time to objectively watch the perspective of a beginner. I hope this is not the case with you aswell and maybe its just my feeling.
Its not that i want everything to be easy. Not at all.
I like the fact that i get punished when i die a lot for example. I only think that some things are more hardcore like this system for example for the sake of being hardcore⌠instead of the balance between hardcore and still being fun.
Because i like hard choices, i also like permanent choices, or at least choices that are hard to ârespecâ, because it gives me a better immersion in developing my own character.
I 100% promise you, i had the same opinion about this, when i started playing LE. And when i initally started playing LE, there was no minimum respec level NOR could you respec individual points, you had to respec the whole skill at once.
They introduced the removing of single skill points, which was ok. That was one change i liked. But i did enjoyed the only system where completely respeccing to a new ability was a major set-back.
Where do you get punished?
There is no death penalty in game atm, except losing progress in Arena and a few echoes in MoF (this system also already got changed and was made far less punishing than it was when it was first introduced)
EHG does plan to introduce a death penalty, we are not sure yet what thsi will be, but i welcome it.
You get set back in the echoes. This is fine by me now but it is punish non the less.
You cant change mastery. You need to relevel your character if you want to play a different mastery (like what the heck? Just for a Mastery? Really xD) Its not like the masterys are that interesting to waste hours of releveling. Anyways its punishing.
You need to relevel skills. Punishing.
You need to pay money to respec your passives. Which is a good thing but punishing.
I think your being really narrow minded in this post. Beside that it seems odd to me that clearly punishing things on paper still makes you question where the punish is .
I think i heard enough. I respect people having a different opinion but this is just ⌠well lets not say what i think about this. Have a nice day sir.
Btw you just confirmed the suspesion i already had that i described about some community testers not really objectivly listen.
I know that there are âpunishing systemsâ in place. You can argue how punishing they are.
I was solely refering to your comment about:
EDIT:
I do listen, i just simply do not agree.
The game was already alot âmore punishingâ with some system a few patches ago. They already changed alot of system slightly to make them less punishing.
I think the new respec method is actually pretty great. And if you start from level 1 you start to hit the ârespec benchmarksâ and any new skills you add to your chosen ones start at that level so you donât even have to start from level 1 with your third, fourth and fifth skill. Thatâs pretty generous and I was surprised to see that (donât know if itâs intentional or not.)
I also think it benefits playtesting. Because starting at a certain level at least means you have to work the skill a bit. Itâs just enough to get your going. This I think more beneficial to newer and casual players because you canât just respec into an entirely different skill test it out in one Arena and decide, yeah this sucks when you may not really know how the skill actually works. At much higher levels for the die-hard players itâs mostly irrelevant because of how fast you can level one up to around 17 or 18 so the true theory-crafters can virtually play until their heartâs content.
Yeah i agree it is hard to find a sweet spot. It would safe a lot of time if i could easily change things around with not to meany hassle early on. I prefer that because i prefer to atleast know were iam going to die hard grind on it to be fun and playable.
yep we disagree and thats all i gonna say about it since there are minor points you objectivily react to in my opinion. With this i mean that i have a feeling you keep looking from your own perspective mostly instead of the perspective of different type of players who want to play this game aswell, which is your right to do so. But hey thats my feeling.
With some other people it feels more like i can openly debate on it and they type why this system for beginners might be better or not or for hardcore. I prefer discussion with people who do that.
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