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Resistance Changes Feedback Thread

Here we go! I will get the conversation Started because I feel and hear such a divide in the community and no one has come to talk about it yet.

So far I think the new resistance system is a good “Starting” point. Is it perfect no.
I do believe certain resistance type are too easy to get from certain sources.
after you build your resistances. You move on to Armor, dodge, block, health, ward, frailty and damage.

So depending on the type of player you are you will want all of these or some of these, and you can specialize in some depending on your build.

I really like that the gearing system is more layered than the previous system and most of you defenses scale separately.

Now if you are trying to min max your gear I feel like there is a bit more gear tax then there was previously. Building health is now an option which to me is a good thing.
But in terms of building I feel like I want dodge or block and ward or health and you will always want resistances.

Dodge is really good because you can completely negate a hit and block is a separate form of DR.

What I would like to see is some of the caps maybe a little harder to get too, and I feel like dodge feels like a must have.

I still feel like there could be better sources of this for sorcerer. But I really love the ward building options for the Spellblade tree and would love to see some things like that come to Sorcerer. Like the dr shield and wps on stacking int. this is all really good!

Let me know your thoughts Like I said this is all to get the conversation rolling.

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I dont like how the set affixes always roll the same amount. you get t5 and you know its 5%/piece. Old GB you had to make sure you had at least 1 7% roll and for all the old set protection affixes there was a range so there was a higher cap on gear that took more time to make perfect and it had a large effect on character strength. Now since not as many affixes that you run have ranges it is quicker to get to that very top tier gear.

Also, because crafting was made way easier (and brain dead just craft until it fractures, who cares if it damaging fractures anymore cause its hardly a consequence) that also makes you get gear to quickly

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So other than requiring a 7% roll like the old gb system was. What would you say would be a fix to the issue about gearing too quickly in your opinion?

Id make damaging fractures actually feel like a negative. losing an affix or 2 isnt near punishing enough. Make set resistance tier 5 a range of 4-5/piece. With worst roles you get 64% and best is 80%. It would also feel better to get a exalted set piece too cause it could shore up a lower role. or you need to use the runes that reroll affix values.
Edit: Thought of this in 3 minutes so could be better ways probably

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I need more time to play with it, I haven’t completely geared out a new character yet.

My initial thoughts:

  1. I’m glad Resistances have a cap / end point - endless Prot stacking was boring.

  2. I think the cap should be higher for some classes or masteries, so when you pick Sorcerer vs. Forge Guard class archetype has more meaning - right now all classes are a 75% Res Class.

  3. I miss GB capping to some extent - it took 4 Prefixes, then I could move on from there to whatever ( unfortunately for 0.7.9, that was Prot or Dodge stacking - but there was potential for more variety with some form of capping there? ).

  4. I’ve started working on a new gear set, and so far the set is confusing mess. I have resistances scattered all over the place.

I’m not sold one way or the other yet, I need more time to play - these are just my initial impressions.

My next goal is to set up a gear planner and work on following that, so I have a better understanding of what kind of trade offs and customizations I can make.

( It seems like that will be setting up Set Res, Crit Avoidance, Stack Dodge, then HP/Armor in non-Dodge affix slots. )

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ofc so what do you think of the options to cap certain resistance on skill to clear up space on the gear slots to make room for other affixes and say building more int and vitality for sat a mage then get say different dodge and armor value so that is is harder to reach cap?

I like the idea of having the ability to cap SOME resistances through tree and skills. I LOVED the old beastmaster passive that gave 50% glancing blow because it really changed up the gearing. Am I getting the remaining 50% on gear? idols? blessings? Well thats not a thing anymore. I wish they had maybe just replaced it with 75% physical resistance to change up the gearing a bit for beast master so im not just using all set items. then for the nectrotic maybe I can get a blessing or some idols and 1 flat on armor idk but give me SOMETHING to think about it terms of gearing and not just “get this 4 set and this 4 set and this 4 set” its just boring and like i mentioned none of those have ranges so its even worse

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I agree with most of what you said and feel and understand you haven’t bbuilt in end game yet

This is kind of the point imo. How classes had GB as well to me this is suto GB.

Depends on the build. Crit damage reduction actually give you a reduction to the damage not just the crit damage, building for primary stats can be a thing again now int, strength, Vit. as well as frailty. I agree on dodge and thing it is really strong still so you essentially want to take it.

but there is more room to build on gear than just those if you get your res in say a skill or passives. But that is what I think so far. yet again I am not pushing 300 waves :smile:

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To be honest the only sets i get are necro and poison build physical as a suffix or even set physical and void all depending on the class I am playing and what I am not currently getting for free elsewhere. But I completely agree with the rest!

Yes, but Glancing Blow took 4 Prefixes, Resistance Caps w/ Set Res Affixes takes 12. And then, from that point you could move on to stacking Prots or Dodge depending on what your class had access to.

So far this appears to be an even tighter bottleneck to get through before you can start playing toward your class’s strengths.

  • Yes, everyone is taking Frailty - One T5 Prefix is (28-35)%, which is more than enough to get an easy 3 stacks. If you have a class that can apply Frailty and decide you don’t need to gear for it, you save One Prefix.

  • Damage Taken from Critical Strikes, according to the Database, is a Suffix for Non-Staff 2H Weapons only. So… maybe a 2H Build drops an ailment suffix in place of this. But, weapon suffixes already are not competitive - prefixes are, and then you use your last crafting stability to fill suffixes with ailments/channeled, or in this case maybe you take the reduced Damage.

  • The vast majority of your prefixes are going toward Set Ele, Set Necro/Poison, Set Phys/Void (like, 12/22 total prefixes, and some of those don’t matter because I’m counting weapons, caster off-hands and chest which can’t even roll the Set Affixes into the Total). The rest, you are taking % Dodge/Armor where available, CDR on Helmet, Frailty, Cast/Attack Speed for the animation fluidity.

Yes, maybe in some cases a class can get Frailty, or some Res from trees - but, I don’t see them saving more than 1-2 Prefixes.

And yes, there are a lot of new cool, useful sounding defenses. But, you have to think about what slots they roll on, prefix vs. suffixes, what they are competing against, and really how much room we have on gear to customize after just hitting the caps alone.

By the time you get all of your Res capped, Crit Avoidance, CDR, Frailty, Attack/Cast Speed - I really don’t see how most classes and builds won’t have 90% of their Affixes in common.

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but wouldn’t getting this in other places aka passives and skill free up these slots? when you can get then for free?

I get what you are saying and agree with a good bit fo it but you have to take the whole build for each character into account not just he gear :grin:
So this will free up those prefixes and such for other options.

I have way less experience with LE than you guys. But with 5 digit hours in PoE i feel confident to give my two cents about a system, that is more or less the same.

With 75% maxres getting capped will be mandatory. In that sense the new res replace old GB.
Armour now works against all hits. In that sense it partially replaces protections (not for DOTs though).

Giving a higher or lower resistance-cap to different classes imho wouldn’t be a good move. 1% additional maxres already equals 4% damagereduction compared to the baseline after getting capped. And the higher maxres you get, the better they become. It’s a stat with increasing returns, so to speak. In the early days PoE had a +2% maxres node in the tree, wich was powerful enough, to make each and every build travel towards it. If anywhere, then i’d rather see maxres as part of the itemization than on classes themselves.

From what i’ve gathered, there are concerns in the community about loosing the “infinite” progression of the old protection system. I can understand that, but imho res only equal protections in the sense, that they mitigate damage. For the process of gearing they rather resemble old GB. (The cap, you have to reach; the tax, you have to pay.) Whether one builds dodge, block, armour, ward, hp or a mixture of those imo is not affected by the change towards percentage based resistances. When one way of gearing (e.g. dodge+hp) clearly outperforms the other options, then those options should be balanced against each other oc.

One has to admit though, that the gearing process after getting capped is a bit boring. “i get +1 int and another 20 dodge rating, yeah!”. But i don’t think resistances are to blame for that. Imho we simply need more interesting affixes (like on idols and class-specific items) to alleviate this problem.

Another danger might be, that armourshred and penetration now might become too impactful. Some skills get it in abundance, others come empty-handed. The game already has some huge powergaps between skills. I hope, that LE won’t go down the PoE route of having 5 skills, that everybody plays, another 10 or so that are ok (but non-meta) and the rest being more or less trash.

Finally a question for the crazy people, who already have a new character in endgame: How do DOTs feel atm? I see many ways to deal with hitdamage in the current defensive system, but only very few to deal with DOTs (“reduced damage over time taken” and investing into sustain).

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I completely agree hole heartedly with this response Keep in mind we do not have Legendaries yet as well. Dots are strong bc the only way to defend against them is health/ward and your resistances.

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I don’t think there are very compelling Prefixes right now that you would be excited to use instead.

  • Set Health/Dodge/HP5 are removed.
  • The “Added” stats pale in comparison to what you can get from Passives and Skill Trees.
  • Maybe Leech? - But taking damage is far from a gradual process, it’s usually 1/4-1/2 HP bursts, or one shots.
  • And then you have Main Stat.

I don’t feel like the current Prefixes are enabling or build defining enough to be excited for - in the grand scheme of all of the stats you are getting from your skills and class trees - a few free prefixes are just small drops in a bucket.

I’m really trying to be optimistic here, but I don’t think that this opens as many options as it would seem at first glance.

I appreciate having caps on stats, I think that was a step in the right direction - I would really like to see more interplay between classes and how they can use and manipulate their defensive layers.

Playing a Sentinel for free Resistances so I can get 30 more Vitality does not make me hyped to be playing a Sentinel, OR feel like I’m playing whatever my class fantasy would be (the Shield Thrower, the Spin to Win, the Void Caster, etc.)

I think this system is definitely easier to understand, but ultimately equal to or more restricting than it was last patch, and just as hollow in terms of meaningful choices.

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Right now my biggest concern is ward… again ^^. With Ward getting the full benefit from armor I’m pretty sure we’ll see a lot of overperforming Ward builds in the ladder.

It seems the remove of the 50% DR from GB wasn’t adressed when it comes to enemys dmg. Some enemys hit much harder then before the patch.

The system in place seems more consistent then the system we had before from my point of view and I think I’m happier with it but I need to further play the game.

Hmm… Everyone is making some interesting points… Here are mine after “restoring” my lvl 95 VK Rive build after the changes:

  • It IS relatively easy to max out Resistances. Even factoring a little “fat” for shredding/penetration is simple. Unfortunately this ease means that people are likely going to all end up using the same set affixes in favour of more creative gear approaches (at least at end-game levels)

  • Resistance capping is a must. The difference is like chalk and cheese at lvl 100 maps and makes a HUGE difference.

  • I love the fact that it is EASY to build res while saving affix space for other things. I am not entirely sure that we have a nice variety of affixes to use in this newly available space but this is an opportunity to add more.

  • Glorious GB was WAY too strong and that had to be addressed - as much as I loved it, it had to be nerfed. I never realised how strong it actually was until they removed it.

  • Armour would be my next priority for most builds as I have found that it mitigates the loss of GB - previously I ignored armour almost entirely and now I find it has the greatest impact on my build after capping res. and its not that difficult to gear for - a little here a little there goes a long way. It works really well (for my build at least) and is easily worth respecing gear for. The low health Armour boost calc is very good for stopping those one shots, although watching your health jump far more radically than before is a little heartstopping.

  • Dodge I feel is hard to get to decent % levels (based on Tunks mitigation graphs) and is likely going to be my “nice to have” affix if I have place for it… Obviously this is related to my VK Rive build and I expect that it may take more priority for other builds (Rogue).

  • Fraility is a great new addition and makes a noticeable difference when you have 100% chance of applying it (which is easy if you use a 2h). Useless for mobs that you one or two shot but useful for bosses and rares. Not sure if its a must have just yet. Would’ve been nice if there were some variations on it though… like another that lowers the mob resistance in a similar way. Variety would be good.

  • DoT is an irritation - especially for face tanking - but I dont feel it is too much of a problem with capped resistances. I can usually withstand enough ticks to get the hell out of there… It’s probably going to need some attention going forward as it feels too powerful sometimes and coming from a lowly white mob, is a little frustrating having to kite around.

  • The changes have made a big impact on Uniques. I am not sure that just changing their affixes to the new system has worked. This is anecdotal but the few uniques I tended to use are virtually pointless now… e.g. Orians Eye was a must have, now it has no value for my build. I have a soft spot for Uniques and wish that they were more useful in promoting end-game builds. Heres hoping future content will address this.

My three cents…

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Feels like the new res system is a step back instead of forward. It basically killed the sentinel class, conversions and x dmg taken as x completely butchered. Res you can have capped around start endgame. Armor is boring. Dodge is OP. HP stack stack stack. GB gone.

All sources of dmg reduction feel mandatory. Dot dmg reduction does basically not excist, not much to gear for.

It gives the illusion that every build is viable, while in reality you all die at the same wave at arena. Minmaxers got hit hard, arena is not fun to play or to watch. Monolith same story.

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It’s not even slightly killed the Sentinel class, though the damage taken conversions are now pointless (IMO). I’m not sure what you mean by “armour is boring”, it’s about as boring as any of the other defences. Dodge was just as OP before (more so since they removed the set dodge affix), HP stacking is more useful now, yes plus high ward builds benefit from resists (they didn’t before). GB is still here, you just can’t get much, even if you’re a Paladin/Beastmaster.

Damage reduction was always mandatory, plus ward builds benefit from more sources of damage reduction than they did before & they’ve added a new one (Frailty, it’s awesome & stacks with all your existing damage reduction because it’s reduced damage dealt, not damage taken).

The only dot damage reductions we had before were on the oracle amulets (still there), resists/protections (still there) & the Sentinel’s damage conversions (now pointless). But we now have Frailty as well.

Block is a very powerful source of damage reduction, especially for a Sentinel who can get up to 100% much more easily now, it can give you up to 65% DR, on top of armour (much easier for the Sentinel to approach the cap compared to other classes) & resists. Block is even not too bad for non-Sentinels now. I’ve got a 40% chance to block on my spellblade with ~50% damage reduction on block, which isn’t too bad.

If you think the Sentinel has been “killed”, then, politely, I’m not sure you’ve been thinking about it.

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Not saying there isn’t fun new stuff, I’m just mad they took sentinels main thing (protections) and streamlined it to resistance for all classes to easily cap.

Don’t know about HP being the stat for all classes to minmax. Just sounds flat and boring.

I’m not sure I’d say protections were the Sentinel’s thing (certainly not after then capped Rallying Block to 10 stacks), but block is significantly more important now for a Sentinel since you can get a fair bit more damage reduction with it than you could before. And you can get 100% chance to block (with all it’s attendant “on block” effects).

Yeah, that’s fair enough.