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Refining Skill Respecs in Patch 0.7.10

We plan to polish skill respecs in our next update.

In the current version of the game, it is possible to either remove individual points from a skill’s specialization tree or to completely delevel the skill and start over from scratch - usually with a different skill entirely. While we will be retaining the current respec system, there are a couple of pain points with the current implementation that we plan to address.
 

Minimum Level 7

Any skill placed in the slot on the left will immediately be set to level 7.

 
Currently, despecialized skills placed in a specialization slot are always set to level 1. Starting with Patch 0.7.10, this minimum skill level will scale with character level. This is intended to make respecs feel less punishing, while still preventing hot swapping of skills.

We are also looking at skills taking longer to respec for lower level characters than higher level characters, which is something we have always wanted to change. We believe the opportunity cost of respeccing skills should be greatest for high level characters, and so we are exploring various potential changes we can make to have skill respecs be less punishing at lower levels.

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Been waiting for this!!! HYPE!

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This is awesome, I can’t wait!

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Looks like a good middleground for now for all the opposite factions on that hot topic.

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Awwwww yeah! All aboard the Hype train!

This will make testing new skills and updating builds soooo much better, thank you! :pray: :pray: :pray:

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A good step in the right direction: As for making respecs less onerous for low level characters, you could just floor the minimum level a skill reduces down to on respec. That way, it’s possible to make a lot of changes, tests, and experiments during the early levels in order to test out your skills without being punished for it (which is the current scenario).

Ideally, you should be able to freely test and swap skills up to around (my estimate) 5-7 invested points, somewhere between a quarter and a third of their total power. I think avoiding hot-swapping is kind of killing the majority to save a small sliver of the potential: Yes, it’s probably a good goal for this design, but if you pursue it to the point where builds are impossible to test and theorycraft, and players get punished for trying out skills early? It makes everything worse.

TL;DR just let people hotswap and respec without losing any points up until around 5-7 points invested, and then have it scale up as you level.

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Hey, this looks really good.

I know these changes will make a lot of new players happy.

Nice to see you adress this damn hot topic.

I’m curious about how it feels in reality. Just by the numbers and the explenations its hard to judge if it will be a real improvement for early / midgame.

But I’ll just trust you guys and let the patch hype increase slowly with every announcement :slight_smile:

Will the free skill points be capped at a certain level, or will max level characters have access to all 20 points?

I wouldn’t mind seeing something like a low free skill level cap (10 maybe?) on the free points so end game players still have to relevel them to some extent - that way there is still SOME weight to player choice

It will never grant you a minimum skill level of 20.

As noted in the post, preventing hot swapping is one of our goals. :slight_smile:

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What? I thought it wasn’t punishing enough.
I think this decision is a mistake since it really doesn’t seem like a problem and only serves to cut down on play time.

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I like this. Should allow everyone to test more skills quicker.

This seems like a placebo change. If you’re at a high level, you can easily skill up the earlier levels. It’s hardly a hassle. On the other hand, making skills level faster for earlier levels seems like a good change.

What is the philosophy behind respeccing skills? Encourage build experimentation? Develop a sense of permanency? The current system leans towards the former with a token shout out to the latter. My opinion is to go all the way in to one or the other and not compromise. If you want to encourage build experimentation, then make it easy to do so. If you want character builds to be permanent, then make it hard/impossible to respec at a higher level while retaining the ability to make corrections at earlier levels. But also make it less tedious to make new characters if that’s the direction you’re going.

The current approach satisfies neither camp. You want to experiment (current system allows it) but it’s a hassle releveling skills. The people in the other camp are dissatisfied that characters can have completely different flavors by respeccing. Go hard one way or the other, but make it as good of an experience as it can be.

Build experimentation: allow skill levels to be permanent. Ability to swap between builds (like what FF 14 does) including passives and items.

Permanent builds: skills can go to level 17 (or any other number) until you make the skill permanent which allows you to have the full 20 points. Introduce an alt system that makes it easier or at least a smoother experience creating a new character.

Great change, new players will love this.

I don´t quite understand, why this change would bother you. Just keep playing the way you like. Just a thought. :wink:

Personally, I like the change, since I am one of them new players.
Still learning the classes and skills, and experimenting shouldn´t be a hassle, especially early on, otherwise some people might drop the game in dissapointment, which would be a shame. Few have oodles of time, respeccing and releveling can become tedious, and whith the new skills that become avaible the further you spec in your class/mastery tree, you´ll want to try out those…

Tl;DR: Yay.

Good QoL change - will help new players to make it easy to play around with builds to find their own playstyle. :wink:

Not a big fan of the proposed implementation in 0.7.10. It just sounds very arbitrary to me. But I’m in total alignment with the quoted.

I never said it bothered me. I’m in neither camp. I’m providing my feedback as this is early access/beta. If anything people like you are the least helpful to testing a beta game. Suggesting players to just accept a change/feature is not helpful to testing a game. Try things out and provide constructive feedback so the game comes out in a good state. Looks like you are doing just that so don’t try to discourage others from doing so as well just because you don’t agree. Not saying my opinion is right, but the general attitude should be to provide feedback on how things feel.

To elaborate on my placebo comment. Not sure on the exact numbers but when you’re at a higher level, it doesn’t take long (up to lvl 25? arena to lvl it up to 10+?). The skill level is easy to make up. The relatively more cumbersome part is leveling it to 20, 1-15 or so is fast and it doesn’t take long to get to 18+ at which point you already have enough skill points that the skill is at where you want it to be.

All I’m saying is EHG seems to be trying to appease/appeal to both crowds and while I usually commend such an approach, I don’t believe it’s the right approach for this particular issue. Going all the way in on one approach allows the team to put in systems and features that can make the experience smooth and feel good. I don’t believe the current approach does any of that. That’s just my feedback on how I view this issue. I’m ok either way but want to give my view on this as I think this is an excellent game that can go far.

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I sort of like it. Make the curve favor early levels heavily enough, and this could work well.
Personally, I would rather have some sort of consistency in how respeccing is handled for skills vs passives.
And honestly, for this game, I believe the most meaningful solution would be to roughly mirror the shard system used for affixes:

CONCEPT: ABILITY SHARDS

  • At the experience thresholds where spec points for skills and masteries are currently granted, instead spawn a player-clone shade just like the ones in the mastery quest, somewhere on the next combat map that is generated; a map can have multiple shades if needed
  • The shade drops a character-bound shard for the appropriate growth tree when killed; e.g. “Shard of Mastery” or “Shard of Elemental Nova”; (if something goes wrong and you don’t get it, they spawn again on the next map)
  • The Chronomancer is used to allocate or destroy ability shards, similar to how the Forge is used for affix shards; destroying/despeccing shards costs money, just like removing passive points does now
  • Re-earning a destroyed shard requires a fraction of the original experience; as a wild example say 30% exp on skills and 1% exp on masteries
  • High-level shades should get difficult enough to matter, utilizing their respective ability trees in full force against you
  • Optional, for fun!: the shades in the actual mastery quest area now drop Shards of Failure, which are spent to activate the altar at the end; “Failures are blessings for the wise.”