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Reaper form is now pidgeonholed into... I dunno what

So reaper form used to be a pretty great skill you could use it as a survivability booster, a dps booster, and some mobility in a lot of different builds, it was a fantastic skill and actually felt really good as the capstone lich skill.
Now… Well now it’s complete trash. It functions solely for a reap focused build, it offers almost no additional survivability since you can no longer turn your Intelligence into survivability. Ooooo armor! shut up. Instead of being this great skill you could stay in for a decent chunk of time by stacking int and various forms of healing with a cool mobility skill for dodging, now it’s just… welp It is maybe a shitty dps cooldown since you can get some spell damage (keeping in mind over half the builds you’d have used it for before don’t scale spell damage) or you can use reap, which is a lackluster attack at best.

Gone is the amazing poison build where you could pop reaper form to stack extra poisons from all your attacks. Now you have a poison solely on reap, AND lose its ability to crit for it, lol give me a break.
They gutted this skill, no one should take it now. Hell I’d say just play necro lich is dead. the number of builds that took a big hit with this are just too high. ugh.

If it ends up needing to be buffed later then they will buff it. Don’t complain about balance when we are still super far away from release, things are going to be changing all the time.

That’s just a plainly idiotic standpoint. “don’t complain about balance” on the forums, specifically designed for feedback. don’t white knight, don’t blindly trust devs. Give feedback. If you don’t tell them that they trashed your enjoyment of your character, then how else will they know? I promise you that the devs would MUCH rather that I come on here, make a post complaining about them gutting my character than quietly uninstall the game and never look back because the 2nd thing is clearly more common, me coming in here and letting them know what I think shows that I’m engaged with the game and care about what happens.

“don’t complain about balance” lol… this idea is so prevalent in gaming and it’s completely idiotic.

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You’re right that we would prefer to have you come on the forums to give feedback rather than just uninstalling. I would prefer even more to have that feedback be a suggestion on what we should do instead. The way it was set up was a mistake and it needed to be changed. We will continue to change it until it is fun. If you’re not sure on how it should be changed instead, that’s totally fine too.

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To reply to that. I really liked reaper as a dps cooldown which increased poison stacking ability. I currently play a poison stacking lich and popping reaper form was a great DPS cooldown when everything I did applied poisons. You have some decent space on one side of the tree to bring in a poison build beyond just Reap. Additionally I haven’t played with reap, but it seems very hard to scale reap as opposed to other Acolyte lich skills, since it’s an attack and scales off of just attack relevant modifiers, while most of your other abilities scale off either spell or dot multipliers. If you’re playing a poison scaling build having reap apply 1 stack of poison isn’t going to be very impactful since those builds are generally about getting as many stacks out as possible.
Additionally I like the increased healing effectiveness in Reap, it seems good. I did like though that the increased health was a way to stack int to stay in reaper longer, essentially giving you a stat to maximize your dps window. That said if that’s not really back on the table I’d recommend having int translate into armor AND protections so that you’re not just tanking phys dmg you’re scaling your ehp vs all dmg. That would also jam with the poison build if you’re using (the name escapes me) poison stacking aura, you’d take less damage from poison in your reaper form.

For a spell scaling build you have that lower right corner of the tree which scales spell dmg based on duration in Reaper form, which is great, but It’s also a rough build since while it’s fine to have that as a dps cooldown it doesn’t have a ton of synergy with most spell builds I’ve seen beyond flat damage. Though if you combine it with the increased healing and the rip blood skill you could probably stay in reaper form decently long.

The summoning skeletons… I don’t really like this, it muddies the waters between lich and necromancer. It falls flat. I don’t see sumoning skeletons as a great thing for lich builds, maybe there are some where it’s good, I don’t know It doesn’t seem very great as there aren’t too many nodes which scale them in the lich tree.

I prefer that specializations have clearly defined themes, The acolyte does its thing but then you specialize in one area, having lich bring out skeletons just feels bleh.

Effects on entering reaper form. These are pretty lackluster nodes, this isn’t like aura of decay that you’re toggling on and off if you build up too many poison stacks, there’s a pretty chunky cooldown on any effect that happens when you enter reaper form, since you’re going to want to be IN reaper form for as long as possible due to its other benefits, and there’s no real way for you to expedite your exit from reaper form. That means once you push the button, you get the effect, have to wait for the duration of your reaper form (sometimes this can be quite long) and then the cooldown on reaper form before you can push it again. That means these effects need to be VERY strong, or maybe taking that node causes reaper form to have a max duration but a lesser cooldown. Something like On entering reaper form you summon X skeletons per point, Reaper form has a max duration of 10 seconds but its cooldown is reduced to 7 seconds. or something. I don’t much care for the skeleton summoning in the lich pool but that’s an example. OR you could have it be something along the lines of When you enter Reaper form you shoot a free hungering soul (using skill tree bonuses) at all enemies, you gain ward equal to 50% of the damage done by the initial hit, Or something. To give you a nice chunky ward start.

Anyways those are some thoughts. I will say reap was hard enough to fit into most builds that I took none of the reap nodes and just use it purely as a mobility skill, to dodge or get around faster.

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That’s what I’m talking about! Great stuff in there.

Reap does scale off of Int and Dex by default. It gets +1 base damage per int and 4% increased damage per dex. So at 100 int it has +100 damage which is really strong considering it starts at 2. Now, if this isn’t working right, it might not be being reflected in gameplay and that might be a bug we need to look at.

I like the idea of adding protections in to the armor node or possibly as its own node.

The minion nodes might have to go. The Lich itself needs to have some minion synergy but Reaper Form is almost the far reaches of the class and those nodes might just be muddying the waters as you say.

I like the idea of the in/out nodes being more synergistic and promoting that through cooldowns of the skill itself. I’m hoping to get a few different styles working with this tree.

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So yeah it does scale off int, and dex, but does anything else the lich is realistically going to use scale off dex? I believe harvest might scale off dex. however is there any dex in the lich tree? I see a lot of int, and some vit. I don’t think I’ve seen any dex but I’m not in the game right now to check. It’s fine to give it additional scaling based on dex, but then you’re making gearing decisions which involve serious opportunity costs. I can put a bunch of dex on my gear but then I’m trading prefixes which are usually other damage nodes, and I could get significantly more damage by just stacking the damage type that reap is (necrotic IIRC though posion with a node, or well there was a node it may be gone). If I’m giving up %necrotic dmg and I’m using something like hungering souls you’re creating anti-synergy between reap based builds and other skills. Which is fine! but, it seems like for a skill that isn’t essentially no CD which you only have access to during a cooldown ability which by design can only have around 30-60 seconds of uptime you may be pigeon holing the reap ability. Since you would essentially be gearing/speccing around an ability which you simply can’t use all the time. that’s going to create a gameplay scenario where it feels really good when you’re in reaper form, but when you’re not in reaper form you’re at most mediocre.

Edit: I’m going to leave that, but I misread what you said about scaling and flipped the 2.

In a response to what you actually wrote. I think everything I said about dex still stands, but since it scales base dmg with int and you’re getting a lot of int in the tree, that’s good. especially since you’re scaling your % with like necrotic dmg % so it works ok with hungering souls, which is really the other Lich ability.

That’s another topic which is only tangentially related to this which deals with specialization feel. I feel like lich flavor really is poisons and life draining. Necromancer is minions/ghosts, and Warlock when it comes out will probably be something like curses and (fire maybe).

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I would honestly just love to see Lich not just focused on using the reap skill. Basically as of now, the only point of using Lich is if you create a build around reap. And since reap isn’t a skill with it’s own tree, and no passives to support it other than what’s in the Lich tree. It makes it almost useless hence making Lich pretty useless. I’d rather see reap just removed period and use Lich as a branch for other builds since it’s more of a form and less of a skill.

My take on Lich:
-remove the life degen
-add mana degen
-give us mana pots
-remove reap
-make reap a skill
-create a tree for reap
-remove any instance of reap from Lich tree
-make Lich skill tree based around melee and spellcasting abilities for any build

I like the reap gameplay overall, but i feel the cooldown is way too long. It results in what feels very sluggish without adding harvest, which seems redundant imo. I’d love to see a node that removes the CD entirely at the cost of some lifesteal or something.

I don’t like the Reaper Form tree changes in 0.7.2b patch. Cursed with Knowledge is a huge nerf, healt scaling with INT was very nice for squishy casters, armor is not that usefull. And there is a useless node Harbinger of Blood on the way to Reaper’s Mark. https://i.imgur.com/GwGssir.png

I suggest when some talent is OP (Cursed with Knowledge), do not remove it from the game completely, make some reasonable nerf, for instance “0.5 health per point per intelligence”.

Harbinger of blood is an amazing node. You have no health regeneration in Reaper form. That improves all of your healing such as lifesteal keeping you in reaper form for a significantly longer time.

I don’t think that lich is built around reap at all, most of lich’s passives have little effect on reap. Mostly lich scales around souls and poison, and I REALLY don’t want to see those get removed currently.

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As a caster, I don’t use Reap for healing, just for movement. Healing efectiveness is useless, because I heal to full life every spell cast (Sacrifice for me).

sure, for you. but that doesn’t make it a useless node. There is a difference between this doesn’t help my build, and this doesn’t help any builds. I also use reap exclusively for movement, but the healing effectiveness helps significantly boost my uptime in reaper form

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Yes I meant useless for my build. I don’t want the node to be removed, but maybe the position should be improved.

Healing Effectiveness does not increase healing from leech, only from “healing spells,” according to an in-game tooltip. I’m not sure what, if anything, Acolyte has that actually benefits from Healing Effectiveness.

That said, I think Reaper Form is still a pretty strong skill overall. Honestly even if it did absolutely nothing but give you an extra health bar it would be decent.

There is a node in the plague node tree that heals you for 8% of your missing life per second. This scales with healing effectiveness. I have done extensive testing to confirm this for myself. With about 200% healing effectiveness which wasn’t too hard to get you end up recovering a quarter of you missing life per second in addition to your health regen. It’s very powerful when you get a decent chunk of life.

I’m really excited to try out these reaper form Changes. I am hoping to find a way to get some good survivability out of this with harbinger of blood, herald of rot, and blood tether.

So after an obscene amount of Farming I finally got the Chest piece I wanted to hopefully really take off with my build, and sadly the reaper form Degen goes through Ward. I’m REALLY sad about that. I was hoping that reaper form degen would hit ward before health. So you could do a ward stacking build to stay in reaper form longer, especially given how many of Acolyte abilities are either focused around ward or can be focused around ward, and considering they focus on scaling intelligence.