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On skill trees and experience


#1

I’m sure its something ya’ll have discussed, but what are thoughts around having skill trees retain the experience they gain when you despecialise, but making the exp required to get to 20 significantly higher (like runescape grinding higher :p)?

EDIT
Other ideas (even if you dont want em! hehe)

  • Diablo-esque system - gain a point or points to put into skill trees as you please during leveling that are permanent (but obviously able to be reset some how). Would either require multiple points per level or for people to keep gaining points past max level.

  • Skill points from exploring - Put a certain number of skill point granting objects in each map that give you a skill point the first time you use it.

  • Purchase skill points/skills from a vendor - Spend cash monay to gain skills or skill points (Level/amount gated).

  • Exp from using a skill

  • Magical slugs that grant your wishes when you lick them.


#2

But that gets rid of the entire point. They don’t want people constantly switching skills like in D3. And what good would it do to make us grind so much just for skill customization?


#3

Hmm. Im not sure if the entire point is to disincentivize people from skill switching nor do i think they should be. My general experience is that people dont enjoy being punished for trying different skills or setups but they are quite happy to grind out skill levels.
But i think your point was it shouldnt be easy to get swap things around, and with that i totally agree!!

I brough it up because my fire mage, who is now level 70 and well specced into fire just found some neat lightning unique boots.

I can very easily respec my passives, and its not TOO much of a big deal for me to level skills in the arena at my level, but it just seems wierd and…kinda silly… that I have to basically keep my main skill (fireball) on my hotbar so that i can train up static orb and other skills to try out this build and then REtrain my fire skills when i want to go back to my main build.

Just looking for new/better/exciting ways of doing things!!

Ill probably have a brainstorm and throw a bunch of awful ideas into the OP.


#4

In my opinion the current Skill system is a good way between a “hard and unforgiving” system where you spent your points and they are spent for good and a “soft, free to change” system where you can respec whenever you want without a drawback.

Maybe i am too much of a role player but i like the feeling when the skills grow as you use them. I am also someone who would rather use items for my skills, then skills for my items.

I still think your ideas have a point that it makes it feel silly when you want to repec in the current “endgame”, but i think that shouldn’t be a problem once we get Multiplayer and some kind of Group leveling going.

My idea in putting both things together would be a NPC for more respec abilities, or consumable items that could do something like:

  • Respec a skill and keeping the skill points.
  • Switching an active and an inactive skill, also switching the skill level.
  • Resets a skill and gives you some kind of other consumable that either grands Levels to another skill or helps in leveling another skill up to the level of the reseted skill (i.e. double EXP till it reaches the same level).

These consumables should be rare to find only be usable in a non hostile area like a town. They could be tradable and may be used as a high level currency in trading. These consumables could totally be Magical Slugs you lick :smiley: .


#5

I would really like to see some way to save a template of your skill tree that you have previously leveled, which you could store, so you can level a new template to try new things. The template could have a significant currency cost, but would allow you an easy way to “re-roll” your character’s specialization.

It might be nice to even have an alternative tree for your specializations selected, which you could freely switch between, would make sense to have some kind of channeling and cool-down to make the transition between alternate forms of your specializations, so you can have a boss killer and mob clear setup, but wouldn’t be able to willy-nilly swap in-combat without exposing yourself. And, this ultimately would still constrain you to using the same skills you specialized in.

This would add untold layers to the game in my opinion. Giving options to theory-craft players, diversity of play to all types of players, and give more reasons to grind skill trees.


#6

So, the current options for respecing your character are not what the final plan is.

Few things that we are talking about/planning to have:

  • Individual point refund items that will be rare and tradable. These will be good for if you’ve made a mistake and don’t want to redo the whole thing.
  • We had talked about the skill leveling rate be tied to how much you use the skill. We tied it directly to experience because it was way easier to set up and get going for now. (this might change)
  • We talked about having a system by which you could respec a tree and it would keep half the points invested to give you a boost at the start.
  • Some sort of consumable item found in game (not MTX, never real cash for xp boosts) that would increase the leveling rate of a skill or maybe all skills in a rarer form could be possible.

We aren’t really too interested in making the skills retain all the levels when you despecialize. We want skills to be something invested in and carefully chosen. You’ll notice that right now, the rate that they level up is tied directly to flat experience gain, not percentage experience gain. So, if you’re level 1, killing level 1 mobs, a skill will level up really slowly. If you’re a level 70, killing level 70 mobs then you’ll get those first half dozen levels in the skill almost immediately. So late game you can get a skill respec’d most of the way pretty fast. We want the majority of skills to get their mechanics and play style from the trees and the majority of your power to come from the gear.

We are still open to suggestions with this sort of stuff for sure.

As for the template saving, yes and no. We will have tamplate saving and sharing. I can’t see us adding a way to actively swap between them in game without having to relevel them or use some very rare currency…

We really want to avoid the “boss killer setup” and “mob clearing setup” style. Builds should be possible and fun that can do both. If not, that’s more of a failing on my part than anything.

I’m not sure quite how extensive this will be at launch but we have big plans for it. If you’ve ever used Path of Building to plan out a PoE build. We are planning on having something very similar built in to the game and the web site. The long term goals of these features would be that you could make a build, save it to your account in game or on the web site and it would be available on both. Ideally this would be sharable to friends also.


#7

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain what you’re ideas and plans are! Sounds awesome and cant wait to see where things go!!


#8

The long term goals of these features would be that you could make a build, save it to your account in game or on the web site and it would be available on both.

I would love to see a system in which you can plan out your build POB style, and then have it drop into game in a way where you can follow it somehow, instead of having to alt-tab or have a 2nd display open!