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Hate to be that guy:

“The primary form of multiplayer in Last Epoch is partying with up to 4 of your friends online to take down the toughest monsters in the timeline.”

Does this mean 4 people total OR you and 4 friends? I’m guessing it’s the former. But seeing as how there are 5 distinct classes in this game, I’m wondering if 5 players is what you had in mind.


Hello Guys,

I was reading the comments and when I read Terranisaur comment I thought popped in my head.

First I would like to say that the primary games that I play are - D1 Thank you GoG), D2, D3, PoE, WoW, Divinity, Pillars of Eternity etc.

I really like that some characters as the Sentinel have good utility/support aspect within their passive trees, which can be a huge benefit to group play and I also believe that mixing ARPGs mechanics with MMO mechanics is not a good idea, however have you considered to have an alternative Spec for each character?

Something like the Armory in D3 where you can change your gear and skills with a click of a button that will allow you to jump from one build to another, but not more. This will allow a player to have one Solo/DPS orientated build and another utility build.

P.S. I really haven’t put much thinking on this, just thought of it while I was reading.


You + 4 of your friends = 5 people.

The number of base classes isn’t too much of a factor here. If we were to hypothetically add a sixth base class in an expansion post-release, it would be unlikely to affect the player cap.


The reason I play ARPG instead of MMO’s personally is that I am able to do all of its content by myself OR with a friend. You brought up HAVING to have a group like in WoW to run dungeons. To me this is bad because if you can’t find a group to run said dungeon with then you are essentially blocked from ever getting the loot from there which in turn could cause your character to be sub optimal. As a character builder that is suuuuuuper frustrating. That said I love challenging bosses as it gives a goal to build characters towards. My suggestion is that if you have content that requires groups to get loot that you make the loot available in another way. Or best of all have the bosses scale based on number of players so it’s do able solo OR in a group.


I’m in the same boat with @GingerNation here. I’m a very social person and have no problems with gathering a large group quickly but I simply prefer playing alone. This way the sense or pride & accomplishment flows more greatly through me.
I don’t mind tho if some bosses require grouping but finding a solution for both group play and solo play would be the best. The challenge for the individual should stay on the same level in both forms of play, not sure how realistic or easy to achieve that is tho!


@GingerNation and @kiss_me_quick I’m not sure where you read that. I think you might have not quite understood Kyle’s intended post. We don’t have plans for bosses which are only doable in group play. We do have plans for bosses to maybe change in group play to have more mechanics to keep things interesting instead of just increasing the numbers. We do want it to be possible to play through the end game content and get the gear you want in a solo self found mode.


Maybe I read your post too partially but I assumed that “The primary form of multiplayer in Last Epoch is partying with up to 4 of your friends online to take down the toughest monsters in the timeline” meant that the content is balanced specifically around 5 players engaging the dungeon / boss, meaning that the difficulty for a solo player would be marginally higher or even impossible.
If that’s not the case, I’ve got no disputes!


I’m sorry. I see where the confusion is coming from, that’s my bad. I would focus a little more on the “up to” part of the description. The plan is to have the game be fun and exciting with anywhere from 1-5 people in the game at a time.


Thanks for this! I don’t mind playing solo sometimes. Nor that the game caters to solo players. But I really wish the game would also be fun to play with pubs/friends, instead of other ARPGs which by designs incentivize people to solo.


Yea I love the idea of mechanical changes or additions to bosses the more players in a group, and not just more health/damage.
It sounds like it’s gonna be super fun to group up then!


Diablo individual loot is a no brainer choice by a landslide. No one battling for loot, no loot splitting which made playing MP less lootish… On pick up, you can choose to pass or drop it for anyone in the team. There is literally NO good counter argument for this system.

As a long term active D3 forum member. I have NOT seen a single thread on the official forum complaining about it.

Since Eleventh Hour already said loot can be shared among friends, I do not see any issue at all. Unless I missed something. Just extend lot sharing amount anyone in the party (like D3). I think eleventh hour is overthinking.


The restrictions for loot trading with randoms in a party may end up being very similar to D3. If you’re all playing together and you drop an item, you should be able to share it with your fellow party members. The primary action that we are attempting to restrict is going to a website, buying an item for $5, going in to game and someone gives it to you.


I like to play solo or in group, but the only game so far I’m able to play together with my husband is D3 without us getting annoyed at each other. I guess we both strong headed and have away to approach things in a game, and ofc. my way is the best way :laughing:

Anyhow we both bought Last Epoch Beta access and we both love it, still we wish we could play it together now and then.

About the loot yeah I like the way it’s in D3 we get our own loot but can share/trade items between us but it’s on a timer (as I know most of you know).

I know my husband would like to be able to play offline as well, he is away a lot working and internet connection is not always so good. He can then play his solo character and enjoy the game.


At the risk of going off tangent, it will be a very fine balance to achieve this and still give items economic value.


Yup, that’s going to be a really tough one for sure. I think we can do it :smile:


Not to be negative, but I don’t. As long as you can trade with strangers, there will be a “black market” for real money. Even if you make it completely anonymus over an ingame auction house, there will always be ways (see for example Arche Age). :sweat_smile:
Doesn’t bother me much, but no game managed to block that effectively without restricting trading :man_shrugging:


To add up, it’s not even about trading. There will always be RMT; no matter what game, loot system, platform or restrictions.

Creating restrictions for the game to avoid RMT always ends up with developers shooting themselves in the leg, just like Torchlight Frontiers has, which isn’t even brought up in ARPG discussions anymore.


Like I said, the primary action that we are trying to restrict is RMT. We still want players to be able to get items in game through the Bazaar. We want the experience of being a RMT seller and the experience of being an RMT buyer to be difficult enough that it’s just not really worth it. We also want the in game systems to be good enough that it’s just a better experience to use the in game systems.

We know that people are going to do it. We just don’t want the main way that you gear out your character to be going and spending $20. We’re doing what we can to make playing the game fun and cheating at the game annoying and boring.


May I ask how exactly are you planning to do that? I personally cannot imagine a system which would make the RMTers life harder, yet wouldn’t affect the average player.

The concept of RMT exists due to people having higher expectations than what their present or short term future goals are. What is hard for a buyer, is easy for a seller; this gap will always exist. I mean Venezuelans play manually to RMT for 0.5$ per hour in Runescape en masse.

Cannot trade = the seller will play on the account.
Restricted loot = the seller will have a group who will speedrun for the buyer.
Restricted trade = the seller will provide highest tier equipment for the buyer to sell over time.
Banning accounts = very bad idea.

Only way to lower player’s expectations is having easier to achieve milestones / achievements.
Only games where RMT barely exists that I know of are Street Fighter( no rewards, you get messed up too fast) and Team Fortress ranked mode( no rewards, too casual game). Even Diablo 3 which in my opinion is way too easy to use RMT for, has a giant RMT scene which is VERY CHEAP!


There are lots of little things that will help achieve this goal. I would love to dive deep on it but I don’t really have the time today. (trying to get some skill fixes in before the next patch). If you haven’t read the plans for the bazaar yet I’d give that a read as it outlines several systems which will deter RMT.