I just want to pop in and add some points to certain topics.
Agree with the impression that the ward hammer hit to hard. Ward comes from op to not viable for some builds. It’s from one extreme to another.
And there really shouldn’t be access to ward for all classes.
Imho when you compare defenses of classes with each other you should take the following into account:
- Are the classes comparable on their max defensive capacity? -> how much ehp can they get?
Sentinel with 2600hp and 2000 protections = lich with 4000 ward and 600hp + 0 protections (perhaps not super accurate because ward is decaying, but let’s imagine he can sustain ward at this level)
- how easy is it for each class to reach that capacity?
Sentinel needs super good high end gear and a lot of luck with affix rolls and crafting, so BiS on every slot - Lich needs (1 build enabling item and) some int on gear + passives
- what’s the classes damage potential?
3 Mio DPS Lich vs. Warpath Paladin (yeah, example is a bit biased)
Conclusion: They made ward much harder to obtain and sustain. Ward users need a heavy investment into gear regarding ward retention now. So do hp+protection users. It might be too hard, actually, but its defenitely the right direction, imho. The question is: Is ward meant to be a survivability buff on top of hp + protections for mage classes because they lack that stats usually? Or is it meant to be a solely working defensive mechanic where you don’t need other stats? At the end I think high DPS classes should not be as tanky or even tankier than the tank class archetypes. It’s absolutely ok that mages and Acolytes are more squishy than Sentinels or Primslists because they kill faster.
Actually I’ve played Necro a lot and i like it for the opportunity to be the commander of a huge army. But that’s it. Theres not much build diversity. As a Necro there’s only one way: Get as many minions as possible. No hybrid builds as you mentioned. At least for the army build I’d like to have the opportunity to specialise in different damage types. Fire is the only element you really can focus on. Every other damage type is not available for all the different minion types. If I wanna go frost, my golem an wraiths have no synergies.
To get your minions beefy you need to invest a lot into minion stats and are very squishy. And with 600hp and no prots you get numerous unlucky oneshots.
Why not add the following:
- Scale minion survivability with number of minions actively summoned. So the less minions active/alive the harder they are to kill. This would enable summoner builds with only 1-2 minion skills.
- Grand the Necromancer more spelldamage the less minions are active. This way the hybrid builds would be buffed again. Because it doesn’t make sense to switch skeleton mages for soulfeast when you don’t have any damage modifiers for spells while everything goes into minion stats to make them viable
- grand the Necromancer (or all Acolytes) more ward retention per active minions. This would compensate for using minion stats instead of defensive ones.
Also I agree with the AI. Needs some buffs. @ApprenticeCorner, minions already run slightly faster than the player. But they have a delay with starting to walk. When you click somewhere your char always starts walking first and they follow you. It might also help if they’d at least start walking instantly and always stop surrounding the player. Of course stances would be really cool. But I don’t like to have additional skills for minion movement on my hot bar eating my precious skill slots.
I really like @ApprenticeCorner’s idea of the transformation as a kind of ultimate. @Stormquake’s idea is also nice. Why not differentiate the different forms in their mechanics. Make Werebear transformation a temporarily damage boost, while focus Spriggan on sustaining in form. Also it would be cool to improve the shape shifting effects and animation of forms (it’s a must!) Maybe also add different effects to transformations like aoe damage when transforming in and aoe stun when transforming out. Or put nodes on the transformation skilltrees to choose these effects and alter them.
You all have some really good points here. I think you as mainly hardcore players in terms of time investment have a relatively objective point of view of on what kind if players/endgame ehg should focus. I as a casual player feel kind of well represented.
So here are some points I want to add:
- Complexity =/ Content
You can put as much complexity to this games mechanic as you wish, you would end up having hardcore players that understand them easily (new mechanics don’t come all at once) and are bored after a while. For me complexity is ok as it is right now.
Same goes with build diversity. Making more builds viable adds some complexity at first, but it also makes finding viable builds easier for casual players.
- There’s not only that one kind if casual player that doesn’t want to dive into the mechanics and meta game. If it was so you would not need to worry about them. These guys don’t know that their build is crap. They don’t know that they should be able to do 100 arena waves with their build instead if 20. But it’s not a problem. They don’t care. The number is as small as the number if 24/7 hardcore players.
A huge amount of the player base are the tryhards (like me). These guys soak in informations on forums and yt and try to compete with the hardcore gamers. They copy builds because they don’t have the time to experiment. It’s a question of effective use of your given play time. If you can play 2 hours per day but have some goals you want to achieve you don’t want to waste your time by experimenting with crappy builds. You wanna go straight in and build a viable char by using pro advises from all possible sources.
You guys may have the time and fun with experimenting. These guys may not have the time or patience to do this. @Stormquake, you said you made a warpath build for the reason you don’t want people to be frustrated. So you serve exact these people that ask about the best build in chat because they don’t wanna get stuck with a crappy build.
So these tryhard players are the ones that quit playing when the endgame goals are not achievable. They get frustrated because they know everything about this game but can’t achieve it in their shorter playtime.
This happens when you lock people out with complex mechanics that have certain requirements to be accessible. These games don’t need more complexity in these terms. They need content. The constant feeling that you are able to reach the top of the ladder (even if you can’t). This is the magic trick. Make the casual tryhards think they could compete even if they can’t.
This is why I am so eager to not have that many layers of rng in a game, but more target farming. It’s nice to be lucky to get the super rare legendary weapon for a Druid. But when you are playing a Lich you would want to rather find the super rare Lich waepon. Target farming for specific items is very nice for casual players. It does not have to be the BiS gear but maybe the 2nd or 3rd BiS.
- Skill Balance
200% agree with @ApprenticeCorner here. Skills have to have a higher base damage or better scaling mechanics. Some skills have interesting mechanics but suck as hell in terms of damage. Needs a fix!
And last but not least: @QuietForMe, I really like you, but… you need a better mic, dude .
Thanks for that interesting discussion. I think the podcast should be shorter. Maybe you guys consider making a stream half as long but double the amount.
yeah. i agree been using a blue yeti. they are just a cheap alternative. but just dont have the funding for a good studio mic. but at same time my GFX card is legit dying so i gotta get that fixed. mic been an ongoing battle for me! but as for your post! Love all the things you type here. love how you are starting a convo and spreading the ideas talked about for improvement of the game. i really enjoyed love your post and agreed with some points! But i promise when my budget spares it ill upgrade my mic. my promise to you <3
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