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Increasing Skill Level cap from 20 to 25 - An Idea


#1

Are there any plans of increasing the level cap for skills at any point down the road or where they designed with 20 in mind? I feel that having a few more points available would allow for more diverse skill builds with a bit more “oomph” behind them and that 20 is just a tad too low, with there not being enough to fully fill out some nodes after hitting the cap.


#2

+1
Agreed, when maxing skills i always feel i’m a few points away from completing the build. Although i can under stand the limit it makes you build around the limitations making up for them in your gear or passives. Although if they made it 25 and kept the xp requirements increase at the same rate, the time it takes to get from 24 to 25 should take 10 hours of grinding which would balance out progression. Just a thought though.


#3

I wouldnt mind that either, especially if the xp needed for the last level or 2 was big, like PoE.


#4

I’d rather this kind of effect be granted by a unique item and not global to make you really specialize in your favorite ability. For example:

Amulet of Mastery
+2 to max skill level of X skill.

Perhaps a similar effect could also be granted by some other kind of end game system. Get to level 100, choose a skill that can get +2 to max skill level, this choice is permanent.

I think I heard +skills on items were in the pipeline already but difficult to code/implement.


#5

The +# to max skill level is a great idea as is the choose 1 skill that can be +2 to max level (though I think the choice should come at the end of the full story campaign vs gated behind a lvl most will never achieve)


#6

I think item’s skill would be better ! for exemple only the relic can have some +1 or +2 to a random skill ( Like Borderland ? ) or why not every item can be found with +1 to a random skill ?


#7

I think locking it to an item can hamper build diversity as it can make you feel pigeon-holed into taking it no matter what build you play just to get a bit more power out of your skills. I do like the idea of tying it to an end-game system though as it gives you something important to work towards.


#8

I too think that the item level should be increased, as of now you can barely fill half of the nodes. Don’t get me wrong, unlocking everything like in D3 is horrible idea, however being able to get only around 50% of the potential of a skill feels underwhelming, which is one of main addictive components of RPG games.

So I agree that we should increase the cap and make the last several nodes really hard to unlock.

In terms of + Skill Levels from items, I think that Diablo 2 did it the best, in a way that it was not as a rare thing to come-by. If we have only one or two items that give you this suffix then we will be locked around those items, however if it’s a kinda normal stat for an item with item level of X+ and there is hard cap how much + Skill level we can get from items it will be good.

For example Hammerthrow can benefit from +3 Skill points from item and this being a hard cap,.


#9

I am personally against the idea of increasing skill cap. The problem is that you feel your builds are not complete right? Please correct me if I understood wrong. The solution to this problem should be changing tree, not increasing skill cap.
Why?
Because there has to be a limit and changing limit whenever people feel like they could be better with more points defeats the idea of it. The purpose of limit is to create build diversity. The more you increase the limit, the more similar different builds become.


#10

The problem is that you feel your builds are not complete right?

Yes mainly but that is due to some skills having a large amount of points yet you can only fill out 20 of them. For example, some skills have trees that branch into 5 different paths yet with the 20 point limit, you’d be lucky to fill out one and a half. (Acolyte skeleton is a good example of how big a tree can get).

I know what you’re saying in that lower points means more refined, and defined, trees though and i agree with it, which is why i would only want them to increase the amount of points by a small amount (around 5, 10 max).


#11

I believe it’s to early for such change. All current skill development is going with understanding that every skill has exactly 20 point. Any change of this number requires total rework of every single skill and its tree. And every rework means that something won’t be implemented.

Though it doesn’t mean that it’s completely impossible. Every game should expand and advance. And someday, when Last Epoch becomes a popular, profiting product, catching the interest of large player groups, we’ll get even more skills with much larger trees with 25-35 skill points to invest. It’s just inevitable.


#12

Yeah, the typical “New MaxLvl is 110” of expansions can easily be put into place for skill Levels later on.

Besides of that I’m sure that we’ll see many changes of the existing trees, both small and large, over the next months. For example the Skeleton tree is a bit “overloaded”, so maybe you can condense some nodes into one single one, or for example give Skeleton archers by Default, reducing some nodes (and the “only mages” “only warriors” “only archers” nodes would of Course remain), stuff like that. Also currently I feel the powerlevel of nodes differs greatly in a tree, with some nodes weakening skills almost, they’d Need Change as well.

In the end, not the Numbers of Skill Points is important, but the relevance of one Point. If you have 8 Points that each add 1% crit, or 2 Points that each add 4%…the result would be the same, if you get 4 times as many Points in the first case. Either you Balance around 20 Points, or 25, or 100.


#13

Actually this thread along with this quote sparked a thought in me, nothing i care to test myself.
But has anyone made up a count of different varieties you can make with the 20 points? And are those varieties “good”.
This kind of count-up would make sense to do, to see if a something see to expensive to reach or to cheap to reach.
While i don’t think we should be looking at buffing at this stage of development, i think balancing should definitely be investigated and this count could perhaps uncover some imbalances in the game.


Beta Feedback and impressions after ~30 hours
#14

My main issue is that it’s too arbitrary of a number based on how widely diverse skill trees are. Take marked for death (acolyte). it has 66 possible points to allocate. Then take skeleton (acolyte). it has around 107. 20 is insane for this tree. 20 is perfect for marked for death. I think a percentage would work better like, 30% or something per tree. It REALLY sucks when dealing with a huge tree as is.


#15

you should be able to “sacrifice” an entire specialization slot to add more points to another(maybe +5)

i think this cost is more than enough to justify a potentially massive damage increase/mechanical change to a skill.


#16

losing 20 points to gain 5 is some pretty…rough balance.


#17

depends on the build, if you dont need an extra specialization then it can be put put good use else where.

but if your build spans 5 skills then you obviously wont dump 1 to upgrade another


#18

I think just raising the cap is lazy and unintuitive. I like the idea of having to sacrifice a lot for minimal gains to min/max. Maybe have an epic quest or challenge to give you the chance to give +1 max level to ONE skill. That would be more reasonable to me.


#19

Totally agree, that would make more sense.

On the other hand, I like the fact that I can’t “complete” my skills they way I want to. I can’t think of a way in which we get more diversity by having more points to spent. Right now I’m trying Swipe Shaman and I like the fact that I have to choose between crit, flat light, attack speed and AoE. That’s how arpgs should work, min/maxing and making sacrifices. Being able to get everything you need for the type of build you are making, is not good.


#20

I’ve done a bit of testing on most classes/skills with trees now - I am also of the opinion that 20 feels a tad short. I’ve sortof been playing with the mindset that 20 was just what was currently available and this was going to increase in the future, by some means at least. Some kind of in-game challenge content or even DLC.

I would be a bit disapointed if this is capped at 20 indefinitely.

EDIT: If it remains at 20, an idea would be some sort of system where we can sacrifice points from skills to increase others.