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[Idea] Regarding worries of players buying their way to power using the Bazaar


#21

It’s less a result of market/no market than a result of multi/solo.

PoE is inherently designed as a multiplayer game (hence the online only), even if a SSF option has been added since.
While GD is first and foremost a solo game. There is an option to play coop, but it’s only an option: there are no dedicated servers and, most importantly, the balance is quite bad in multiplayer.

Multiplayer implies the possibility to get help from other players to overcome challenges by teaming up or trading. So the game can be a bit more harsh.
While solo implies you have to rely on your own strenght and drops to complete it. So the game is more favourable to the player.

To be noted that next expansion of GD introduce the possibility to trade a set item for another item of the same set or from another set.


#22

Just wanted to reply to this and express how awesome it is for EHG to listen to the community like this.

I was catching up on some big threads and came across this one. I think this is the correct call; having a predictable restriction on trading makes more sense than a currency that players can attempt to have a stranglehold on. This doesn’t restrict player trading behavior since with limited slots you can still actively trade by flipping items that will sell fast. You can organize stash tabs based on your estimated time-to-sell and just start burning through items in your stash if you want, just as an example. But in the end you still need items to trade, so that encourages farming as well.

Really enjoying Last Epoch so far and looking forward to leaving more feedback soon.


#23

Exactly. The only way to handle this, is to avoid the middle-road. There is no way to adjust this game for traders, without altering some basic principles, unless there is a separate mode designed specifically for that. PoE imo, is a great game if you want to play this way and I see no reason for LE to try and compete with that. Yes, you might lose some potential players, but we all know how trying to win everybody, can affect game quality.


#24

Honestly, I think that LE will only GAIN players for not following that model. I’ve quit PoE entirely due to their trade system being hard work. I’d rather go build a wall or dig a ditch than trade in PoE, and despite switching to SSF to enjoy the game in that way, it’s become more and more clear that the entire game is balanced around having to trade for gear… so I want to play a game that doesn’t rely on copying bad design, and punish the player for wanting to play.


#25

If you want to restrict trade, then you must have a good loot system that encourage players to play to get the loot they desired. Otherwise it become the Mess of PoE, where trade is artifically make shitty, WHILE NOT improving loots. As trading still the best way to aquired gears, SO people STILL Trade, but at the same time, get frustrated with trading.

Nothing is more frastrating then not able to trade for a key build defining item, while not being able to farm one.


#26

I totally echo the sentiments of avoiding PoE’s trading system.

I don’t want to feel totally disconnected to the world in LE though and I think trading helps to keep the world feel alive. Having an auction house helps keep that feeling alive, especially if you have to travel to a specific zone to use it and you can see other players there as well. Haven’t thought too hard about this but seems like it would be fun. I enjoyed cramming into the auction house back during the WoW days. I know an MMO ARPG isn’t the same experience but seeing other players helps to bring a sense of purpose and life to the world, at least in my opinion.


#27

PoE’s problem is with the whole process of alt tabbing and searching, not with restrictions since it doesn’t have any. Trade with no restrictions can reduce the intended difficulty of a game and reduce it’s longevity within a league/cycle. It already happened in PoE, where after a couple of weeks, trading becomes the endgame.


#28

As a PoE long time player. The problems with trade in PoE can be sum up with

  1. It makes PoE into a currency gathering game, instead of loot base arpg
  2. RNG overkill means the odd of getting good gears for your characters is very low. So you need to sell/buy gears
  3. Trading is awful, time consuming & break gameplay, DESPITE still the best way to progress, so people STILL Force to trade, unless you play solo self found.
  4. Inaccessible META crafting (super expensive) for 99% of players, Too much RNG even for crafting. MOst player just use the few basic carfting, like add a free Suffix/prefix, reroll the implicit.

I sum it up in an analogy. If you want people to use the subway, improve the subway, not make the roads worse. This is exactly what happened in PoE.

In my opinion, there shouldn’t be a limit (or very restrictive 1) for crafting mats, base gears etc. For uniques, if you do not want people to be able to trade, then there must be a means for players to get them in game (shouldn’t be easy, but there must be path(s) how to do it).

I think Diablo 3 does a good job on this aspect.

  • You can gamble for gear type, with chance of unique
  • You can convert rare of a gear type to unqiue, but cost a significant amount of materials
  • You can reroll uniques with chnace to get a better version, at a high material cost
  • You can have a chance to loot it via playing, or someone in your group, & passed to you.

#29

Fully agree - Slow clap - And that analogy is great :smiley:


#30

This is pretty easy for me: If I farmed enough currency to buy item X I farmed enough. Supply and Demand will be selfregulating in this manner and every online game is terrible when it comes to ecconomy. With that in mind I’m totaly chilled and see no problem if there will be items buyable with ingame gold for example.


#31

I was thinking what was cool with trading in Diablo 2. It was the fact that there was no currency present for trading. The gold was worth nothing and so nobody traded for gold. The currency invented by the community was gems and runes. Also people traded item for item (that is also very common with trading in Warframe).

So what about getting rid of any currency? People would only be able to trade items for other items.

Sellers would create an auction for an item and add a comment what they want to have in exchange for the item. For example somebody finds a good 2h sword that he can not use on his acolyte and wants to trade it for a wand (or specific crafting mats or both). So he puts that 2h swort into the bazar stash and writes a note what he wants to have in exchange. There could be selection menus for the items attributes (affixes and so on) that can optinaly be specified. The buyer would put the required item(s) into the bazar stash (he could also add more mats or additional items). The item has to match the requirements of the selected attributes of the seller. Otherwise it won’t be accepted by the bazar.
Other buyers could see what others bidders have put into the stash and decide if their items can compete with those and make a bid or not. The seller can decide to accept or decline a bid. Perhaps it could be possible for the seller to comment a bid to give the bidder the chance to increase it.

This way people have to acquire items through playing the game first to be able to obtain items at the bazar because they have to find something that is worth trading.

It’s like trading via chat or forum just in forms of an auction house.


#32

I don’t see the “problem” with new players buying very good wear?
Everybody should be able to play the way they want.
Myself,I’m waiting for the offline version because in no way I’ll grind 20 hours to get the thing I want so I’ll mod my game a lot.
I play Torchlight 2 with mods,more classes,more loot,more fun :slight_smile:


#33

Aren’t bazaars/AH something to be frowned upon at this day and age?

A bazaar just adds another layer of bad game development to a game that should have none. Not because it offers new people the ability to potentially skip playing the game you took years to develop the way you meant it to be played, but because it robs the an A-RPG game of it’s defining characteristic, which is farming. And the bazaar directly impacts in farming, not because it allows me to buy the item I can’t find, but because it has to directly make that item HARDER to be found, because else people would flood the market with it. Say I’m someone who doesn’t enjoy paying to win, but I’m also not someone willing to farm 2000H for my Headhunter, you made the game twice un-fun for this hypothetical person.

Believe it or not, the system Diablo 3 has in place for trading right now is the best possible one a game could have: have the item be available for everyone that was in game when it dropped for 24 hours. After that, you have to farm another one.

Since, from the looks of how much I’ve played, which ain’t much right now, the best items in the game will be rares, just limit the AH to uniques/sets (and crafting bases). This way you encourage new people to play the game and use it’s systems, and ultra-rich people can’t flood the market with T10s uber-crafts.


#34

I think this theory is a bit flawed. I get your point for sure and I don’t want to change the point you are coming from but there is one little thing I want to throw in. If I farmed the a million gold and someone is selling an item I want for that price I farmed enough to obtain it. I did my part of playing an ARPG so where is the Problem to make stuff obtainable?

Soulbound items are a plague of “modern day” mmorpgs and never have been a thing in the starting days of gaming. It’s just an artifical way to expend a games lifespan game devs don’t want to compansate with content. It’s silly that I am not able to use a tool someone else used before me because she used it or because I wasn’t there when it was crafted. There are plenty of other ways to regulate trading noone cared about, like char size, Race and so on and so forth. Making something bound is the most mindnumbing way to keep people at farming.