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Help me calculate this

I´ve come to terms with mechanics after reading the Void Sorcerer Build Guide. Now I`m heavily rethinking how Damage is being calculated in this game, will think through my thoughts and hope for answers if Im doing this properly.

So it´s again my quest of the melee summoner Lich. Currently I got it all quite mixed - 2 handed sovnya, mass crit, 300-400% necrotic dmg, 50 int… Harvest does decent. Maybe crits for 1000-2500, and 6 skull stack does 5000-7000 on a good day…

I will change the maths now (and therefor, my equipment haha).

I will change to getting these stats from passives, skills and items to calculate my new harvest damage. Note: currently, my sovnya is 88 base, +6% crit Chance with +7% melee crit and about 100% necrotic dmg with 48 int. Which gives me 136 base dmg and massive crit and the stated necrotic total dmg of stated above.

Now:

  • one handed weapon, 48 base attack, +4% crit
  • 100 int total gives +100 melee necrotic
  • 20 melee necrotic from passives
  • 86% increased damage, 60% increased necrotic and 60% increased physical damage from passives
  • 200% more crit chance and 120% crit Multi from passives and items
  • Reaper Form grants 180% flat dmg incfease and 100% crit chance
  • Harvest deals double damage to cursed enemys and 50% more damage to cursed enemys with the node next to the +9% melee crit chance on the left.
  • Harvest deals 300% damage on every 6th hit

Lets do the calculation. My one-handed sword now deals

  • 168 base damage (48 base + 100 melee necrotic from int + 20 melee necrotic from passives)
  • 146% increased damage total from passives (86% increased and 60% each for physical/necrotic)
    makes me --> 413 base damage (168*2,46)
  • Reaper form grants 180% increased damage (413 * 2,8) or (413+168 * 2,8)
    –> 1156 or 883 depending on which calculation is correct
  • Harvest deals double damage to cursed enemys and 50% additional to cursed due to skill tree - so X is either of the numbers 1156 or 883, and the damage gets doubled and then additional 50%, or simply 100%+50% is 150% flat Bonus of the value to cursed enemys. Lets say its 150% added and not 100% and then 50% (which would give much more), then its (x * 2,5)
    –> 2890 or 2207
  • Every 6th hit deals 300% additional damage (2890 * 4) or (2207 * 4)
    –> 11560 or 8828

That is the best possible base damage we get with These stats, in reaper form, dealing Harvest to cursed enemys with 6 skull stacks.

Lets do the crit math:

Base 5% + weapon base 4% + Harvest +9% melee crit
–> 18% melee crit chance for Harvest

  • We get 200% increased crit chance from passives and items and 100% from reaper form, that makes 300% more crit chance = makes 18%*4
    –> 72% crit chance
  • We get 120% crit Multi, which adds up to 320% crit Multi which multiplies damage factor by 3,2. So the calculation should be 0,72% chance for *3,2 damage… base * chance * critdamage

Remember the bases were --> 11560 or 8828. If that cursed Harvest attack in reaper form on a 6 skull stack crits, we should get X * 0,72 * 3,2
–> 26634 or 20339

Without skull stack, we do 2890 or 2207 damage… with the crits we get
–> 6650 or 5084 with each hit

If we count attack Speed in, base being 1,1 or 1,12 base attack speed

  • 30% increased from reaper form
  • 35% maximum from passives
  • 35% from items
    Makes 100% increased attack speed. Which means fast slashes with 5000-6500 damage per hit and 20300-26500 skull damage every 6th hit (which naturally occurs more often with a 1hander).

Which seems much better than my very slow current 2hand sovnya Version?

Also, I would like to calculate through my melee Skeletons damage - going crit, crit Multi, mass Intelligence, grab all the +melee physical/necrotic damage from passives and then see where this goes and how I could improve. Right now, every melee warrior does 400-1200 crit on melee. With 7 skele Warriors, 3 melee mage Warriors and 3 vanguards, there is room for improvement!

Can someone tell me the base damage of Skeletons / melee mages upon which I can do my calculations?

And are my calculations Right so far / is there much failure going on? :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks for the help ! <3

All increased damage are summed up together as a coefficient applied to the base damage may they come from gear of passive skill tree as far as I understand because in the guide it is stated so (or at least not precise enough to think otherwise). So for me your step 2/3 for you base damage calculation should be combined in one step.

So if it is not said “multiplicative”, it is Always base * increased damage - and the increased is all increased first added up together, and then comes the “increased base” so to speak, and THEN you multiply with the “multiplicative increased damage”?

As I understand yes , multiplicative with other modifiers would make it a “more” type of damage and therefore applied as a coefficient after your calculations from increased damage.

Skills have added damage effectiveness, which is 100% is by default, so you might want to check what Harvest’s is. If it is 100% your figures are good, otherwise the +100 & +20 will have a modifier on them before they get added to the 48 base.

I assume you’re applying the increaseds correctly by element & not just adding them up en masse & applying them as a total to the total phys+necrotic damage, 'cause that would be wrong.

I’ve heard it said that there are two different buckets for “increased”, though I’ve never tested it myself. Generally all the “increased” damage is added up & applied in a single go (by element, obviously, “increased physical” isn’t going to affect your necrotic damage).

Also, I’m assuming that the damage modifiers from Reaper are proper “increased” not “more” since damage modifiers in skill trees are always “more”, but Reaper doesn’t do damage by itself, so lets assume they are "increased.

You’d therefore need to add up the “increased” from Reaper to your “increased” from passive & gear (again, assuming that they are treated as a single thing & not separated into two separate “increased” buckets).

All of the “more” damage modifiers in a skill are multiplicative and therefore apply separately. So your harvest would give you the x2 & x1.5 damage modifiers. Skull Shards would then be yet another x4 “more” modifier on it’s 7th attack.

It’s not, the “base” attack speed is 1.47, to which all the attack speed modifiers (including the weapon’s “base” attack speed) are added. So you’re getting 1.47 * (1+ -0.03 + 0.3 + 0.35 + 0.35) attacks per second.

Nope, you’d need to get them to attack the training dummy (which has no protections) to get the base damage per hit (after stripping out any modifiers you have from gear or passives).

That is something that is bothering me too. In the game guide what is written is opposite to that. It is never written anywhere that the specific increased damage apply to the portion of the corresponding base damage (as it should normally be).

What is written in the guide is what he did :

“The total of the added sources is multiplied by the totalof the increased source”.

Yeah, that has to be wrong though. Otherwise there’s no point in having different elements other than fluff (& other affixes, such as “your next Lightning skill does X increased damage”).
@Sarno

So either this section of the game guide as to be understood as each single step as to be applied to every type of damage (in the exemple do that once for phys and do that again for necrotic). If it is the case then it is incredibly poor wording from the guide.

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Yes. It’s fairly simple to test. Get a skill that does a single element of damage see how much the average damage is (since non-dots have a +/- 25% damage range) then get a load of increased modifiers that buff a different element & see how much the average damage is. I’m 99% sure that it would be the same. That said, you’d think that Anthem’s starter gun would do less damage than it’s end-game gear…

I mean there is a pretty simple way to lift the confusion and gives everyone a better understanding.
Add at the beginning of this guide section :

“The following steps has to be exectuted for each single type of damage separately (phys/cold/fire/lightning/void/necrotic/poison) and then added together to gives the total damage of one skill”.

Something like this that clarifiy from the get go all confusion.

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Well thats good and bad News.

The bad News, I Need to recalculate the increased modifiers properly as “increased”, not as “more”. But since I did both because I wasnt sure, that means that the second, lower number applies in my calculations. I did take the physical and necrotic as seperate ones, though, and didnt add them. 60% physical and 60% necrotic I took as 60% increased Damage for the base.

The second bad News is that Harvest has 70% applied effectiveness of Damage. So the +100 and the +20 need to be multiplied by 0.7 first, but all the .increased and the .more dont need to be cut by that 30% Right?

The first good or very good news is that Harvest indeed is multiplicative, so I can do that x2 and then go x1,5 again :stuck_out_tongue:

I tried putting on all the int and the passives. Without the x1,5 Harvest Multiplier and neither the skulls, but everything else (quite):

  • a one handed axe base dmg 48, with 91 int and 294% crit Multi, I crit 4,3-5,5k each hit without skulls. Im using a White base for this
  • a plain ranseur of base dmg 80 does me 4,6-5,8k crit - with regular higher Bursts of up to 7k

Seems quite to be near my calculations! I will check with the x1,5 from Harvest Multiplier when I have time, that should ramp up the Damage too. Also need to test with the skulls and the Multiplier, and see how much Damage remains when I remove the “Damage converted to necrotic” from my Harvest, because that eats up 5 Points I need for skull and/or Multiplier.

Given that the difference is very Little from a onehanded and a two handed, and that the off-Hand provides additional 10-15 int and other love beneficial for me and my minions - plus the higher attack Speed base of 1,12 for the skulls…

I would probably need to calculate what the best on that one handed axe would be as prefixes? Crit will be high anyways, so I can get a bunch of attack Speed that would be very hard to get anywhere else (which helps with the skulls and leeching Health back).

Then - crit Multi /added melee Damage?

Will do the Skeletons math soon x)

Dammage effectiveness only applies to the base damage. So you are right.

Your choice is probably between a Deicide sword (53 base damage, 1.25 attack speed) or a Raider Axe (48 base damage, 1.12 attack speed, +2%-5% base crit). Depends whether you want to go for faster hits (sword) or more powerful hits (axe).

The conversion to Necrotic node is good because it allows you to take that base physical damage & scale it with your % necrotic modifiers, though you would need to weigh that node against what else you could take with those points.

As for good prefixes, don’t forget the added melee crit prefix that adds to your base crit, it can give an additional +5% base crit at tier 5 (for a total base crit of up to 15% on a Raider axe, or +10% on a Deicide sword).

Yeah but harvest: it’s a tradeoff… Convert to Necrotic or get skull and 65% multiplicative damage. The multi is probably worth more in any case. The skull, with good attack speed, is also worth tons. And it benefits my minions

Also, getting Int on all my gear leaves almost no room for +% Necrotic anyway.

Regarding Crit. With the base of 5%, the weapon base of 5%, and harvest base of +9%, that will be 19%. I will easily get 200% incr CC through other items and passives, which makes it 57%. Now the question is with 57% (which could be pumped to 76% through 2 more items with Crit.), more Melee Necrotic damage or Crit multi might make more sense here maybe?

If you go for 5 points in that node, it’s “only” 43% more multiplier on average (300% more every 7th hit). Which is ~8.6% more damage per point. Not bad, certainly, but what else are your options?

If you take the Slayer’s preffix (up to 5% added melee crit chance), just one affix would get you to 72% crit chance, an additional +50% increased crit would then get you to 84% crit chance.

Specifically what affixes were you thinking of?

Hm yeah but it being multiplied, and it needing no further investment, and it benefiting my minions.

Taking Necrotic would need me to invest 5 points into Lich tree for 60% Necrotic damage, and steal prefix slots on my gear that I don’t really have since on every piece I want Intelligence, and the rest I probably need for set glanc and Crit chance or something. So the investment would be enormous and it might not make huge difference in the end.

Also, the 7th hit for 300% extra damage beenfits my minions, too. I don’t know if it works correctly though. Tested it and had a hard time seeing those big numbers on the dummy from my skelles…

The Crit chance you might be correct about that.

Another option would be +Crit multiplier prefix, but my math also tells me that 74% Crit chance with less Crit multi is far superior than 57% with more Crit multi. Taking the Crit multi on weapon, and going for 72% Crit chance through other means is mathematically quite the same benefit. Which leads me to…

The other affixes I was thinking of, that is +added Melee Necrotic damage (or physical, doesn’t matter) , that might be superior to +5% melee Crit chance, given that I could get to 76% by pumping Crit chance on 2 other items but not the other way around. But then again, that’s +20-24 added flat base damage. Mathematically, that doesn’t account for much difference when you have 72-74% Crit chance… Adding Crit multi, or 20-24 of the added base damage scales worse than just pumping Crit to 74% or 84% :o

There’s no other option worthwhile other than this I guess if I haven’t missed anything. More Necrotic % damage is a waste of that weapon prefix I think… Unless you take the “converts damage to Necrotic” path, but then again this will eat up many slots that could be and would/will be used and needed for getting the Crit chance and Crit multi to a nice level (70%+ and 300%+), and in the end, it might just have the same end result damage wise.

And taking the “convert to Necrotic”, AND getting Int and Crit chance and Crit multiplier and Necrotic % on items is just not lucrative. The amulet is death rattle, then there is 2 rings, offhand and relic I can boost Crit chance, multi and Necrotic % with. But I want set glanc, and I need the suffixes for Crit avoidance, minion damage and my own defenses at some point.

So I think it’s better to just take the skill % multi and leave it at that whilst boosting Int and Crit high.?

I also did look at the Skeletons. Base attack is 20. Adding +8 phyiscal and +20 melee necrotic from tree is the base of my calculations.

We get 90 int = 360% increased Damage, 300% from Equipment, and 120% from passives. Also physical gets 40% increase from passive.

Skeletons have base 5% crit Chance, get 8% through Idols makes 13%. We get 250% CC from Harvest, 50% from helm Suffix, 30% from death rattle, 80% from skill tree. Makes 13% * 410%, makes 66% Crit Chance. With death rattle, we have 300-400% crit Multi for minions.

There is a Body that gives an additional Skeleton and increased Damage by 50-80% or something. Probably additive.

So 28 physical and 20 necrotic - physical gets 820% and necrotic 780% increase.

=28 * 9,2 + 20 * 8,8

Makes 433 base Damage. For the Warriors (thats what I calculate for), we can get 60% multiplicative Damage on the skill tree.

433 * 1,6 = 692

With crit is 692 * 0,66 * 3,5 given we calculate with 350% crit Multi which is the middle

Which gives an average of 1598 Damage on crits.

I did the same calculation with Skeleton mage Warriors, who get +15% base crit and +20 added melee fire Damage through the skill tree and 30% crit multi.

That calculates around 1900 or something.

Vanguards usually hit as hard as melee mages or a Little more, and we get 3 of them.

Applying marked for death gives 30% more Damage to foes. So skeles will do 2080, mage Warriors will do 2500.

8 Warriors and 3 mage Warriors and 3 vanguards do with each hit total of around 30.000 damage.

Right now, my mage warriors do crit for 450-550 without marked for death, and the skelles do crit for 700-900 without marked for death. I have not specced the +20 added melee fire on my mages yet, and I dont have death rattle (which will Benefit the mages more because they reach 100% crit chance).

Mage Warriors can get up to 86% increased melee attack Speed, skelles a little less.

Sounds like a theoretically reasonable army : o and I can get Harvest to 100% increased attack Speed ( 30% passives, 30% reaper form, 40% items )…base is 1,12 … which makes 1,46 * 1,12 * 2 = 3,27 attacks per second.

So every 2 seconds, we will get full skull stack, which gives minions 300% more damage (for a hit I guess?)… which would make my army deal 30000 * 4 total damage every 2? seconds, and my Harvest will do 7500 average crit on hit and 30 000 damage when every 6th hit crits with the skull buff, which is every 2 seconds.

Still Need to find that death rattle o.o Looks sweet on paper :smiley: