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Free respec


#1

Ok, I have seen this topic come up so many times, so here’s my 2 cents:

Make it free and enable an option in character creation (just like hc/solo/maso) to disable it (or the other way around), maybe have some items drop in that mode that you intent to implement anyway to make it a bit easier to respec a couple of points.

Problem solved for everyone. :wink:


#2

#3

That’s a good post from Mike, and I know that they plan to change it anyways, as I have mentioned in my post, not sure what you are trying to tell me here or was this specific idea of including it in character creation already mentioned in that thread? Sorry if I have missed it. I’m talking totally free spec here, not finding items to do so. But have that as an option. Because I disagree about the permanence thing. You can have that if you want to, even with free spec. Was just an idea I had. I don’t have that many. :wink:


#4

So things are always changing and this could too. We don’t currently have any plans to change the general philosophy behind semi-permanent characters. I have just put in a little thing to make is slightly easier if you’re doing a lot of respecs. I’m still working on the actual respsec item drops.

Quite often with systems like this, it’s much easier for us to make things less restrictive over time. If we make things more restrictive, we will probably get some pretty strong push back from the community. Because of this we have erred on the side of caution for a few systems. The respec system in particular was one that we had to put in as quickly as possible and haven’t really touched since then.


#5

Thanks Mike, and I’m fine with whatever you all choose, so don’t get me wrong here. I will put a massive amount of hours into this game anyways, already have actually. :smile:
Was just an idea.


#6

Yeah, it was a rather lengthy discussion, and I think there even is another endless thread about it.
Making it an Option in character creation was mentioned somewhere there, but when you open that can of Worms, where do you stop? Why not make a mode where you get all items for free, right at the start? Or a mode where you are invincible. Who doesn’t like it doesn’t have to use it :smiley:

I would wait for the next Iteration on respecs Mike is working on. When they also add some sort of cost cap or decaying costs for full respecs, you might find that it’s already a good middle-ground between permanence and unlimited free respecs. And honestly, the first full respec is currently not really THAT expensive, when you do it somewhere before lvl 60. It’s not like you Need to farm for months to ever be able to respec :slight_smile:


#7

Ah ok, didn’t know it was mentioned before. Thanks. I disagree about the can of worms thing and I think I already mentioned to you before in another thread that it’s not the same as giving you all items for free or a god mode.
To give you an idea where I am coming from, I recently started playing hc/solo/maso because of a wonderful thread started by Ula_Fey, have never dabbled in hc before, and I have played a lot of ARPG’s, for quite some time, too. It’s a hell of a ride, really fun and tense, but for some characters it’s pretty brutal at the start (playing Sentinel myself), you basically have to put everything into defenses at the start to have a fighting chance. I was lucky enough to have survived those first rough hours, but it will put you in a very difficult situation later on, when you just don’t do enough damage, especially if your drops are subpar. I was doing 63 paper dps at lvl33, an absolute joke, I would have loved to respc all the points I had put into +1 block chance in the beginning to raise my damage output. I died to a Chimera’s death screech, couldn’t put him down fast enough, these things are brutal, especially if you have to use melee to put him down, and not getting away fast enough before he starts doing his thing. So when you say that me wanting to respec in that case is basically cheating or the same as me wanting all items for free or a god mode, then sorry, that’s absolut BS. I want that challenge. Loot is a very important part of the genre, and one of the main draws for me personally. If you give me all items for free, why should I even play this game? So you see, it’s not the same if you remove one of the main reasons a lot of people play these games. I’m not asking for handouts here.


#8

Nah, wanting to switch a few points here and there is fair game, and what you’re asking for is already in the works.

But I’m strictly against for example going full void knight for void zones, then switching back to forge guard in AoE areas, and TPing back to switch into a single-target build right before the boss.
Tinkering with your build here and there->Totally fine, and will come with those single respec point items.
Switching your entire build out for something else->Should come with a heavy cost, to make you think about your build right from the start.


#9

That’s good to hear, and thanks for clarifying your point, I can see where you are coming from, even if I still disagree. And it’s a way better argument than your god mode or item cheat, if you don’t mind me saying that.


#10

:stuck_out_tongue: Fair enough. That whole line of argument started by someone saying that leveling is not “the game”, that “the game” only starts at lvl 85 when your build is nearly complete, and thus you have to be able to change that…
While I see loot and level as basically two sides of the same coin, as ways to increase your power, so switching your points gained by leveling for free is like switching out your +lightning% gear to +fire% gear for free. And noone thinks that belongs in an ARPG. But oh well, no need to start all this again.

Yeah, in the end you’ll be able to tinker with your build as well as completely respec if you want. (You just need to farm a bit for that, but farming is what it’s all about anyway :smiley:) While it will be costly enough that you’ll think twice if you maybe should just level a second char for that new build, resulting in you having a “fire mage” and a “melee nova mage” instead of just “your mage” that switches to different builds each day. It gives you a whole other level of attachment to him :wink:


#11

Haha, no need to get into that argument, you’re totally right. :slight_smile:

This is a bit off-topic, but if you haven’t already, go check out Ula_Fey’s hc/solo/maso thread for a bit of fun, Ula’s posts are really fantastic. Enjoy your evening and the game! Cheers!


#12

I wanted to point out something that seemed to be missed by many people here.

EHG seems to want to adopt a “semi-permanent” characters similar to PoE, allowing repec of skill point (I assume for both active & passive skill trees) instead of some form of semi-dynamic build that allow sub/multiple builds using a single character.

Note however, that PoE is NOT as permanent as many thinks. In PoE, your build considered of 3 main pillars, & 2 smaller pillars. They are

Major pillars of PoE builds

  1. Passive skill tree
  2. Gears (& ability to weapon swap)
  3. Gems

Minor Pillars of PoE Builds
4) Flasks aka Potions
5) Pantheon

Out of the 5 pillars, ONLY passive tree is permanent (with possibility to respec)

WIth Last Epoch, (so far)
There are 3 pillars

  1. Passive skill tree
  2. Active skill trees
  3. Gears
    *Potions are all same, so no impact

Out of the 3 pillars, 2 are permanent!!

Which means if EHG adopted PoE respec system in Last Epoch, it will be way more restrictive than PoE, not similar to PoE. Which IMO, already (refering to PoE) very restrictive.

If I have my way, I would say there need to be some ways to have some level of dynamic in build that allow sub builds to tackle various game content (e.,g speed runs, pushing, Multiplayers, support/heal roles etc) that ensure the game doesn’t get stale too soon.

A suggestion is to allow specialization of say 8-10 skills (even though you can only equip 5 at the moment) , so there is some leeway to have a few builds within your main builds.


#13

That’s a really good point about how gems and gear are pretty large pillars of PoE builds and are freely changeable at will. I will say that skill gems are fairly dependent on gear and passives so if you want to change to new skill gems, you quite often need to change your passives too so they aren’t quite as flexible as it might seem.

We will be taking steps to increase the flexibility of our systems. Allowing more than 5 skill specs but not increasing the bar size is an interesting option to help with that. My main concern would be running through a level with your AoE skill on and then switching to your boss killer skill when you get to the end. We’ll have to talk about it more.