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Economy: How would you like it?

How would you like LE’s economy once MP/Bazar kicks in to be?

I’d prefer a completly player driven economy and trading system:

Everything should be sellable/tradeable, so all shards used in crafting and all items (atleast as long as there aren’t any soulbound items in this game).

Limiting the amounts of possible trades may be a possibility, but only if it’s account based and not a character based limitation, otherwise ppl will just create more and more trade toons. But even then I think why would you do that? Some games limit the amount of trades to be able to sell “services” that increase this amount, but I doubt we want that in LE. What I would do in this case is to create a “fee” to place items in the bazar which increases the more items you have already in (whooho we just found a use for gold in this game xD)

What do you think? I know some people don’t want all items, especially shards, to be sellable, since it would make “crafting” to easy. I don’t think so, since the amount of shards with those nasty affixes everyone is looking for are rare and mostly used on their own characters. But what if I want to sell those things cuz I play my character differently? Or why shouldn’t I be able to sell an item which got good affixes for further craftings on it but I can’t use on any of my characters? Why shouldn’t I be able to sell the 5th sunforged helm I got (I don’t need so many of em, but others really need em and got no luck at all…)…

I think for such an ecenomy system we’d need one thing: good gold sinks to keep the value of our currency stable.

What do you guys think?

RMT and P2W synergizes really well with this.

As long as the game isn’t balanced around the economy (like PoE) I’m happy.

I can literally take or leave trading. I prefer playing SSF-style and rarely emerge from that bubble. In PoE I average five or less trades per league. I would rather spend my time playing the game.

That said I know a lot of folks love economy/trading so by all means let’s have one available. Just…please…don’t balance the game around it. Oh, and get ready for RMT and the inevitable complaining about that, too.

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As it does with any other market system in multiplayer games.

You can just limit the effectivness of RMT and P2W but at the cost of freedom for the whole playerbase.

I like limiting economies with max prices set in stone to flatten the inflation while burning people who sell stuff overpriced on a stake. The only thing that makes gold valuable is to reduce the ammounts ingame and you do this by reducing the availability of it and the earnings you can get from auctions.
This will make goldsellers lifes worse because if you want to seel 1 mill gold and have to find 1k auctions from the right seller and you need to buy them all you are screwed pretty much ^^.
On top of it people get what they deserve… if you play a lot you can get ritch if you don’t play a lot you get… well what you deserve as I said ^^. Max prices compared to the added up Tx’s on the item and we are all good even if noone will like this idea ever and a ton of people will start to enter babyrage once the economy is busted two weeks after release ^^.

I’m against a Player driven economy.

I am all about community and multiplayer and pvp but not trading.

There will be players who do nothing but farm. The economy will inevitable get screwed up by the injection of gold.

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Where will gold be injected?

The gold person A farmed will just be transfered to player B for the items player B farmed.
Player A gets more items player B more gold that way…
The amount of gold farmed by all players always stays the same.

Just spit balling here.

Items already have an inherent gold price (it’s set when you buy it from a vendor). So perhaps the economy could be based in someway around those as the base price. To prevent over-inflation of some items, even if they’re rare? I have no idea how.

Disclaimer: I’m not an economy type player. I generally play a lot of solo, very very rarely do I play multi. Look for items myself. Only when I feel like I’ve reached my limit on how much farming I can do for an item will I look to other means. In Grim Dawn I think I traded for maybe three items early in my playtime (like the first 300 hours or so.) After that everything was either self-found or self-crafted.

Into the economy? By people killing stuff. The problem with gold as a currency in games is that it’s not usually removed from the economy, while it’s constantly being generated by players killing stuff that drops gold. If your character had to pay for food, gear, repairs, taxes, housing, etc and that gold didn’t just go to another player, the net generation of gold would be much reduced, so inflation would be lower.

Exactly, it’s never removed from the economy, so player B then goes to buy some items & that gold just gets shuffled round while everyone gets more gold. And because people have more gold, they can pay more for an item so prices go up (for the best possible items, the not-best possible items would probably go down as no-one wants to buy them at their price because they have enough gold to afford a better one).

Ahh I thought he was talking about some not “farming related” injection of gold…

And yes you are completly right in what you say, thats why I said in my first post, that we’d need good goldsinks to keep the value of our currency stable.

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Yeah. Personally I think everyone should be taxed on their earnings (a flat %, perfectly simple, no tax accountants needed). And as a qualified accountant I’d be happy to, take control of the regulation of the aforementioned taxation. It’ll be fine. You can thank me later for my sterling work keeping inflation under control.

In all seriousness though, as you say, there does need to be some good gold sinks, potentially covering crafting (either a flat charge per craft, or a %, or both, scaling with the tier like the chance to fracture, but for your bank account).

Yes I had the same thing in mind.

One possible gold sink would be an auction fee. 10% of sales price belongs to auction house aká is taken out of the game + you need to pay a flat amount of gold for every piece you want to put in the auction house, increasing as you put in more stuff simultanously.
As an example:
Item 1 - 3 on Auction house: 500 Gold each
Item 4 - 8 on Auction house: 1000 Gold each
Item 9 - 12 on Auction house: 2000 Gold each
and so on… (it’s just example and I put the numbers randomly)

Adding some gold costs to crafting is a gread idea too… I’d make it simple, the better the item gets, the higher the crafting costs should be. I would link it to tiers (amount of combined tiers of all affixes on the item) and base item level… something like (combined tier levels + base item level) * 100

E.G.:
Base Item: Solarum Plate
Base Item Level: 70

Affixes on it: 4* Tier 4
Combinded Affixes on Item: 16

(16 + 70) * 100 = 8600 Gold

to upgrade one of those t4 affixes to t5… I think that would be good, since it scales with base item level it won’t make low or mid level crafting impossible.

I was thinking of a flat crafting fee & a % of your current gold. The flat fee wouldn’t be effective later on (unless you put in some beastly scaling), or you could just say, crafting costs 0.1% of your current gold per tier on the item. So a 4x t4 item would cost 1.6% of your gold to upgrade one of the affixes to a t5. If you had a 3x t7 & 1x t4, that would cost 2.5% to upgrade to a 3x t7 & 1x t5 (which is the highest tier you’d be able to craft to, since the t6 & 7’s can’t be crafted, but should count for the cost). But you would never be priced out of crafting, even if you’d spent all your hard earned gold on coke & hoo, er, gambling, no, that’s not much better… the bazaar?

Or 1% if 0.1% per tier isn’t enough (though that would cost up to ~25% of your gold which is probably too much for a single craft), so somewhere between 1% & 0.1%.

Completely agree.
I get no satifaction from buying stuff, and such free trade markets have an effect where playing and only picking up gold is a more efficient strategy then collecting/crafting; why waste your time if you can just buy whatever you want. It kills the joy of finding stuff, and you know, playing an RPG.
For me, the only really iteresting trade, where players TRADE items, not BUY them. As soon as you introduce a universal currency, trade becomes a market, and looses any value in my opinion. Most people will disagree, I’m sure, but there it is.

Fair enough, and I don’t mean to mock you, but, the bronze age would like their trading system back please.

:smile:

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I don’t want a situation where buying gear is easier/cheaper than crafting/finding items.

This is why IMO the following should be tradable

Affix shards
Idols
Gear up to t5
Glyphs

The following should be unreadable
Uniques
Legendaries
T6 and t7 affixed gear.

Trading to help get to end game but make the endgame chase be your own chase

This is what it boils down to for me. Such a big part of the ARPG experience (again, FOR ME) is being excited about finding better and better loot.

In PoE, this means I play builds that are designed to be SSF-viable, which means you can get by on what you find. I do usually trade a few times per league, generally after I finish the Acts and am just breaking into maps, especially if my resists are terrible. This league, though, my resists are actually passable so I likely won’t trade at all. I look at trade as a luxury at best - something that’s there if you want to participate, but something that should never be required in order to enjoy the game.

Personally, I can’t wrap my head around the idea of trading being “fun” or “engaging”. It feels like you’re intentionally short-circuiting progression. I know there are people who truly do find it fun, and that’s fine. I don’t consider their opinions to be wrong any more than I consider my own to be right. I just don’t understand the draw of being the video game equivalent of Scrooge McDuck with more currency/value than I’ll ever actually use, but I know that type of thing is really satisfying for some people.

I had a guildmate in WoW who cornered my server’s market on flasks for almost the entire Cataclysm expansion. A friend of mine, who also happened to be a friend of his in real life, told me the only reason the guy did it at the start was to see if he could…but then he kept it up because he got off on the fact that he was pissing off other players. He had apparently even been approached by some gold-selling websites but turned them down. He ultimately stopped raiding after a while because he devoted all his time to watching the Auction House.

Where an in-game economy starts to become problematic is when drop rates are designed around its presence. I’ll use D3 Vanilla as an example here. I thought the RMAH was straight-up ludicrous and had no desire to participate in either Auction House as a result, so I decided to play self-found. This resulted in an absolutely terrible game experience because drop rates were complete and utter trash due to being balanced around an economy. People can whine about “Loot 2.0” all they want - it actually made the game enjoyable for me. Sure, they seem to have overcorrected and made it far faster than necessary to gear up, but if my only two options are famine and feast, I’m not going to choose famine.

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PoE has a economy because there is no gold…thats the best part about it

Everything has intrinsic value to the period of time. Gold is WORTHLESS and has no value in these games