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Affix tier and implicit drops to fix gear progression

Gear progression is truely not balanced in last epoch. Exalted items lack true excitement. Highest base items lack implicit diversity. Let’s discuss this and add a possible solution.

Your level 80 and you keep finding that item with perfect affixes but its a level 4 item. Damnnn. Feels bad man.

Found an exalted item. Only 1 affix you want and its level 8 item. Damnnn. Feels bad man.

Let’s fix this and make it more exciting.

Every item should be allowed to roll every implicet. Example. A raider axe rolls critical chance right now. What if instead it could roll increased stun chance or any. Other implicit?! Now you can look for your raider axe to fit your build.

Tiers need to be easier to craft and go much higher but have smaller bonuses. There will be 10 tiers craftable. Tier 11 and 12 are exalted. Tier 1 craftable at level 1. Tier 2 at level 10 and tier 10 at level 90.

As you enter higher level areas only highest level bases drop (remember these can roll with any explicit) when you enter an area where a higher tier affix can drop its more likely to. I.e. at level 10 tier 2 has a small chance tier 1 has high chance. Level 20 area small chance for tier 3 high chance for tier 2 amd 1. And so forth.

The new tier 10 is equal to current t6.

Now all items that drop in your area will be your level and as you level up you can continue to enchant higher giving a much more gear progression feeling.

Exalted still cant be crafted

Implicits now roll higher on a higher base item. I.e. level 4 item rolls 1% crit chance. Level 70 item can roll 6-7%

Currently tier 1 gives the most and tier 4 to tier 5 gives a small jump in power. Were going to reverse that order. Tier 1 gives the least while tier 9 to tier 10 gives the most.

This should inevitably lead to more found items that you actually want to craft and wear throughout your journey and not make it such a bad feeling when you break that 1 item it took a week to find
Ideas? Thoughts?

2 Likes

I agree completely & is something I’ve been complaining about for a while now. IMO, only the top two base items for each base should drop. That way there’s still some RNG in whether you get a “good” base or not, but RNGesus isn’t going to completely **** you over by dropping that exalted with quad T7 affixes of the affixes you want only for it to be a Burning Branch or Broad Sword (thanks for the shards though).

No, that would completely remove any flavour on the items & they just become stat sticks. Happen to roll a crit implicit & Deicide sword-tier melee damage on a wand? Sure, lets use that… Don’t forget, the weapon damage rolls are as much implicits as the crit/bleed chance/etc.

IMO we need more available implicits on the base weapons, and more interesting implicits. What if weapons could roll one or two non-damage implicits from a group? And yes, I know that kinda goes against the sentence I just typed.

But how is that any different to what we’ve got other than giving more granularity & requiring more crafting to get to the higher values? Quite a lot of affixes don’t have a range, so the only way to extend that to 10 tiers would be to either go with decimals (bearing in mind that LE rounds down by default) or massively inflate the values as you go further up in tiers. Not that I’d say no to a +10% melee crit chance being the highest craftable value on a one-handed melee weapon (currently 5%)…

Massive power creep over what we have at the moment, meaning they’d have to make the mobs have significantly more hp to get back to the state that we have at the moment and the monolith bosses are already a bit on the easy side…

TLDR - remove the lower tier bases from the drop pool as you level, add more interesting non-damage implicits & potentially have them roll as 1 (or 2) of a group per item base.

2 Likes

Agree. Agree.

Sounds good to me, on the other hand base items would lack characteristics then.

I like that. Smart loot always beats trash loot. But as you said, the changes to implicits would be mandatory for this.
The second change should work always. But with the lootfilter its not too urgent.

Why not T5? What you said would mean your T12 would be the current T8 (which doesnt exist), so you just adding another layer. Thats just powercreep. A bit early?!
If anything your T10 should be the current T5. So this means we double the possibleintervals. A lot of tiers would have almost or literally no range for their rolls then. And maybe you would even have to inroduce things like “5 and a half strength” or “+1.5% to necro/poison res”.
mmmh

I think the current situation is already somewhat like this for some affixes: E.g. block chance on shield goes from 8% to 10% to 14% (T3-T4-T5). (And that doesnt even reflect the true strength because it has an increasing gain.)

For new players it feels always very interesting and engaging if every single modifier really changes the pace of the game and is impactful.
No one wants +1% increased something at low levels. Thats not fun and low level uniques will become as overpowered as in other ARPGs. I think your suggestion will lead to a lot of balance problems.
How about equal spacing?
Would also remove the need to constantly visit third party sites!!!
value should be n*b with n the tier and b the basic (tier 1) strength so the hole table can be deduced from any item you have with this affix.

You can get 7% on a soyvna right now… so how is this one a massive power creep?

Or maybe tier 1-3 give 1% 4-6 give 2% 7-9 3% and 4% at tier 10… balance is possible.

If only the highest tier bases are dropping there would have to obviously be a chance to not get an implicit you want, and you never know, maybe someone does want +15 cold damage on a wand (Shaman im look at you and tempest strike)

All numbers are subject to change. Yes t10 can be the current T5, but as we have found… playing endgame content and pushing arena… there really isnt a big different in t15 to t20 gear… there needs to be bigger gaps to honestly feel it.

I like equal more than t1 would the power house and only getting small gains after that. So yes this is ok

But this is really just a problem of this particular affix and not a general problem. The implicit crit is just way too high.

all numbers subject to changes. Yes i agree this on some builds is very overpowering.

Because you said that you might want to see any implicit on any item, so you could get that +7% on a Deicide Sword with much higher attack speed than a Polearm. And the power creep comment was regarding the changes to tiers rather than implicits. IMO allowing any implicit on any weapon would lead to a loss of identity, rather than necessarily power creep:

So you’d need more crafting to upgrade it? I’m not sure I’d like that (IMO). If they did extend the tiers, I’d rather they add 1 decimal place & rounding be less punitive. Balance is always possible, if you’re willing to accept change. :wink:

Yes, that is fair, I didn’t put those two together for some reason. I still think it would lead to weapons becoming stat sticks that you only really care about whether they’re mele or caster & what implicit they spawned with.

Deicide is 1h? it wouldnt get a full 7%… it would be more like 4-5% again balance and roll numbers are subject to change.

I fell like there already stat sticks. OF course there going to be melee/caster. But what kind of melee? now you hunt for Stun? freeze? bleed? ignite? crit? added void? added cold? Still RNGJesus

My main point was that it would remove weapon identity not as a balance concern.

Not quite sure how many times I need to repeat this.

Edit: If any weapon can roll any implicit, how is there a difference between a Deicide Sword & a Flanged Mace other than damage & attack speed?

1 Like

Ah i see what ypur saying. Well I mean you can seperste and make a list of implicits for each type. Just like we do for affixes on gear. It can be balanced to work

Yeah, which is what I suggested regarding there being a pool of available implicits.

1 Like

Crafting like it is seems bound to our character level right now.
-> So you need some level-up’s to futher craft more things on your item. Right? (happen sometimes to me)

We could bound it on items “required level” instead.
-> Every onward going affix tier cost (namely crafting space or something like that) one more so an T1 affix will cost 1, an T2 affix will cost 2 and so on, ends with an T7 affix upgrade cost 7.

-> Exemplary, on the end you can bring/find/craft on an item with required level 4 max 4xT1, OR 2xT1 + 1xT2 OR 2xT2 OR 1xT4. If you craft yourself and there are 3xT1 already you can craft one of these further (overlap) to T2 because there is at least on “crafting space” availible, but nothing more, that’s it for such a “required level 4 item”.

-> On an item with required level 15 you can find/count/craft a single T5 (15 of these crafting points) if you want. (or a T4 (10 points) + 2+T2 (another 4 points) and THEN, because there is one last upgrade point left, you can upgrade/overlap this T4 to T5.

Starting from items with required level 60 there can be found some of them with 4 T5 affixes on them. This way it’s more likely to happen that there will be many good and high rolls on higher items.

If the loot filter become the option to hide all items with less than “x” affixes (or x used crafting space points or something) this should be lead to just these higher tier items we all want on the end.

PS: Wer es deutlicher haben möchte, darf mir gerne eine private Nachricht auf deutsch senden. :grinning:

ive only been up for 19 hours. i promise its not intentional.

1 Like

Please not, this will lose all Item Identity. Don’t like that at all.

This would be a great change, already suggested several times here in the forums.

The only thing i would like to see is some higher level version of “currently” mid levle bases that are quite interesting. Some of the lvl ~40ish bases are sometimes even considerable for endgame. Those should not be removed from the loot pool, or they get similar higher level base versions.

That is not true for alot of affixes, while some affixes have already “half of it’s power just in Tier 1”, alot of affixes do not scale linearly and increases its potency by a multiple

TL:DR

  • Keep current implicits for item identity
  • Add new end-game vialbe implicits
  • Only make high item level bases drop in high levle areas
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This would completely kill Bases. Right now we have bases with different implicit and that is how it should be.

This is an ARPG and loot hunting should never end whether that is a higher tier or better value roll. Making it easier ruins the gear progression that we already lack as it is! More bases, more crafting, more bis items keep in mind we are getting Bazaar when MP comes…

1 Like

Yeah great point, should have added that to my previous state post.

When we remove low level item bases, in the current state of the game, getting good items might be waaaaaay to easy.

We might want to just get a handful of more different bases and possibly have higher min-max roll ranges on them?

Just a suggesting. More Bases + More Implicit mix-max roll ranges would not lead to finding “the perfect item” to easy, while still not being able to drop very low useless bases should improve the desire for the loot hunt IMO.

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Now adding more high-level bases that could drop with “harsh” implicit value would work. This way you get your high-level bases but the loot hunting never ends since getting both perfect affix rolls and implicit rolls would be near impossible but it also means that you are able to get upgrades even if it is very unlikely.

I agree with the vast majority of this, the rest to me is just not significant to me.
I would add one thing though and that is that Exalted should not be possible on lower level items. I don’t know anyone who wants a T6 or T7 on an item that’s a level 20 or lower, beyond that there may be someone who would like to see it but that’s the point I think the break should be at minimum.

2 Likes

Yeah, we could get some “high level” bases, with very generic and boring implicits, for example “just armor”, but some armour value that is at least high enough to be high level worthy.

Also just a random idea.

1 Like