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10 Reasons why you should post your build on the wiki

There’s been a new section recently added to the wiki: https://lastepoch.gamepedia.com/Builds:Builds . For those interested in adding their build to the wiki simply input the name of your build in the box on that page, hit create and fill in the details for your build.

Not interested yet? Check out the following reasons why you might be:

  1. The wiki is one of the most viewed Last Epoch resources
    Let’s be honest, one of the main reasons any one spends time making a build guide is so that it can be seen by others.
    Unsurprisingly, the official wiki draws in a large number of people interested in Last Epoch, often comparable to the number of average viewers on Twitch.
  2. There is a template available that will style everything for you
    Trying to figure out how to format a build guide (especially with how extensive the trees are in Last Epoch) can be a real pain. The template requires a minimal amount of input from you, but gathers the rest of the information for your readers.
  3. You don’t have to use the template
    Don’t like the way the template looks? (Tell me about it! Maybe I can fix something) Wikitext supports a variety of formatting that is capable of much more sophistication than a forum post.
  4. Information on the wiki will be automatically updated
    One of the most annoying things about making a build is it suddenly becoming out of date when any of the passives/skills/equipment changes, especially in Last Epoch where this seems to happen every patch. As the wiki is updated with each patch it will also update the information on the build pages, saving you time and effort.
  5. More features will be added to the wiki, no additional effort will be required by you.
    Right now the build template is in it’s most basic form, here are some things I have planned coming down the pipeline:
  • Hovering tooltips
  • Visual improvements to the layout
  • Intuitive skill map visuals
  • History section that automatically shows you what has changed in your build with each patch
  • Automatically calculated character stats/damage per skill
  • Intuitive build planner interface
    When these are added to the wiki, they will be automatically added to your build without you having to make any additional efforts.
  1. Inline links to wiki articles help you and your readers learn more about your build
    The wiki is the most extensive resource for in depth knowledge on the game, having your build directly on the wiki minimizes the time you spend looking up information about the stuff in your build.
  2. Doesn’t require you to log in
    Don’t want to make yet another account on yet another site just to make a build? You don’t have to. While logging in makes it easier to track things, you can still edit freely without making a new account.
  3. Best format for letting other people work with you on a build
    Interested in a collaborative build? Since the wiki can be edited by anyone, it makes this easy. Google Docs can only take you so far…
  4. Database storage allows you to easily keep track of many builds and compare them to other builds.
    Have a lot of builds, tired of digging through youtube to try to find the one that you need to update? You can easily keep track of all of your builds in one spot, you could even set up a user page that lists all of your builds automatically (ask me how to do this).
  5. The wiki is infallible, if something is missing from the wiki it’s because it doesn’t actually exist yet.
    okay… maybe this is just me having a slight bias.
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I’ll give you my own 10 reasons why to not post on the Wiki:

  1. Advertisements

  2. Content on a third party website makes it automatically more unreliable and easier to be mismanaged than the original game forum

  3. Hard to follow an active discussion / have reasonable response times

  4. Commenting on a Wiki is less of an intuitive process than it is in a forum

  5. Drives people away from the original website

  6. An unnecessary additional platform

  7. Less targeted viewers - everyone checks the forums as the first thing for builds. Never have I seen or heard about such process either.

  8. More in-depth but more requires more effort to use

  9. Worse for SEO if the content maker is looking to make use of it / lower ranked on Google than builds on the website

  10. Having builds in a place where the majority posts them( the forum) is a much better way for build makers to compare builds & share ideas with other build makers.

No offense, I just see the official game forums as being marginally better places for builds.

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Fair Enough. Logged in users have less ads, frequent contributors have no ads. Unfortunately I don’t have any control over the number of ads on the site.

I don’t understand your point here, what do you mean unreliable and easier to be mismanaged?

Fair enough. Wiki discussions have a different tempo to them, and are harder at to find at first. Every page does have it’s own dedicated discussion page however, and is better at tracking multiple conversations on different topics.

This shouldn’t be a concern, it’s an official wiki sanctioned by the devs. If anything this is better as it saves bandwidth on the original website.

Disagreed

It depends. People will go to find builds wherever people have posted builds. You could also argue that “Everyone checks YouTube for builds”, “Checks Imgur for builds”, or “justs asks streamers on Twitch for builds” as I see those are places just as frequently used for posting builds. People who are looking for LoL builds will look to https://www.mobafire.com/ for example.

Depends on how you’re currently making your build guides. For sure I’ve seen some that just take 7 screenshots and post them. If you’re making a write up of everything you put in your build, the template will reduce your workload. Also see my point 3, you don’t have to use the template. You could make a similarly low effort build guide as you could anywhere else on the wiki as well.

Gamepedia has spent a lot of effort into SEO, I often find pages on the wiki that are ranked higher than similar pages on the official site. In the end it comes down to user traffic.

Disagreed, the forum format does not lend itself to comparison. There is no way to see/compare details from a build without reading it in the title or opening and reading the build. There is some usefulness to having a build posted where the majority of them are posted, but I’m not convinced this is currently the forums or will always be the forums.

To each their own, and depending on what you want to do it may be the better place for you. However, I don’t think that discouraging people from utilizing resources that may be better suited to them is EVER useful. I appreciate input on why the wiki or build template sucks, it gives me information on how I can improve them, blanket disparaging does not.

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@kiss_me_quick makes alot of controversial posts and is often very opinionated. But in this instance, I tend to lean towards his opinion.

Specifically, on the point about where people look for builds, I agree with both of you. But where he might be coming from is that that is the case in POE. Many people tried to make their own website for builds (including Kripp). All failed, and in POE, the official forum is where someone would look for builds. Given that most people who would give LE a try is highly likely to have come from POE. There will be a strong bias towards favouring the forums. Highlighting this just so you know what might be the obstacle in getting people to adopt the wiki.

PS: I also went to take a look at the wiki build page and found your build guide there. I would suggest gameplay videos be placed right at the top. Most readers looking for build guides like to have a preview of how the build plays before even diving into the specifics of a build.

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I assumed mostly good faith, I just wanted to highlight bits that aren’t particularly useful.

I don’t know about the timing of when people tried to make their own sites, but I would imagine that PoE having build tools on their official website has helped solidify it’s position as the primary source. Of course working against the grain is always difficult.

I’ve drawn lots of inspiration for the wiki from the guild wars wikis, of which one of them is entirely dedicated to builds: https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/PvX_wiki.

Thanks, I’ve been considering doing that.

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Actually no. It’s a basic forum structure. I have no idea why everyone chose to post build guides in the forum. Shrugs.

Every platform provides different results and for players to meet their expectations the platform should be as effective as possible; and no, having more options does equate to a better environment or more effective results for the users.
The problem is in the roots - it has failed everywhere else and it will fail in this scenario as well. If the Last Epoch staff would decide to remove the classes sections, that would not be the case.

If you’re so sensitive to criticism, I suggest you to not post on public discussion platforms.

This is what I just said.

did you mean “having more options doesn’t equate to a better environment”?
if so -> I’m not sure I see the logic there. Even if that were the case I imagine that “the best” platform would be inevitably decided by whichever one is used by the most players in the end. A cursory count reveals a total of 19 builds posted on these forums so far, including out of date ones, I don’t see this as being an insurmountable/ingrained platform.

I’ve provided a few examples of other games/places where build posts have been successful. I’m willing to agree to disagree with you here.

I don’t mind the criticism. I hope you don’t mind that I critique your criticisms.

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Thank you for editing the wiki I am very helpful :smile_cat:

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I don’t know where that word disappeared, yes, does not.

You’re giving examples in games which don’t have their own build sections in the forums. I already told you - if the class sections are removed from the forum, you might even have a chance. Mobafire exists only because League of Legends forums don’t have their own build sections.

You’re also completely wrong about SEO and Google, I don’t think you have experience or qualifications in that area.

Nobody compares builds based on raw stats alone. Every build has unique perks, playstyles and requirements - a mere stat comparison is meaningless.

Nobody “Imgurs builds” or “Asks for builds on Twitch”, that’s a fairy tale. Youtubers are a different story for people who don’t like reading, a niche which you don’t fulfill.

You cannot “disagree” with the fact that a user having to go through more platforms which have the same functionality is useless.

I’m not making some sort of “speculations” here - I’ve made, sold, shared builds on tens of platforms with millions of views.

The point is that the functionality is different. And @GeoGalvanic has highlighted in op some of these difference. You need to learn to agree to disagree.

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Everyone by nature has the right for their own opinion which goes without saying but when it comes to the observable behavior of an average user, the opinions go straight in the trash, hence I stated that this is not a point which can be disagreed with.
The fact is that users visiting more websites( even with additional features) which serve the exact same purpose is bad and cannot be disagreed with. Nothing related to additional features matter because the point was made strictly about the quantity, not quality.

Well, I like the idea of having a separate section of the wiki dedicated for builds only. The template is a great idea as well and should make it easy for everyone to share the build they have in mind with updated and detailed information.
It doesn’t matter where to find the builds, be it in the forum or in the wiki, as long as you find them.
You could also have both. A forum section dedicated to builds which also links to the wiki, where you can also find builds. I know … sounds kinda stupid to have 2 sections for the same thing but you can try it out and see which option is the favour of the community.
If you figured out which way the community wants to go you can adapt and also make the template available in the forums build section linking to the wiki with detailed and updated information or stick with the wiki as the only source.

Hope this helps. Best regards,
Astyc

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